My Uninformed Gut Feeling on the Current Middle East Conflict
I must admit that I do not know enough about the conflict between Israel and Palestine to provide any sort of informed, in-depth analysis. I do, however, know how I feel about Israelis and Palestinians in general, and I can offer my gut feeling on the subject.
And so, with reckless abandon, I will.
Over the past few days, the news reports surrounding the most recent flare-up between Israel and Hamas reminds me of the news reports from this time last year, when the 24-hour networks were alternating between analysis of the upcoming Iowa caucus and a story out of San Francisco about a dead man and two injured brothers, victims of a 300-pound tiger named Tatiana which had escaped from its enclosure at that city's zoo.
People immediately blamed the tiger. Tatiana had apparently bit a handler a year or so before the deadly incident, and therefore to many was just prone to meritless violence. People also blamed the zoo, and experts were subsequently called into the San Francisco Zoo as well as other zoos across the country, measuring and surveying the enclosures of big cats like Tatiana. It wasn't until a little while after the initial reports that we started to hear rumblings that the 19- and 20-year-old dead man and injured brothers were seen taunting the animal, making noises, throwing things, and pretending to come over the fence and into the tiger's enclosure.
Israel, some time ago, pulled all settlors and soldiers out of the Gaza Strip with the understanding that it would provide Hamas-controlled Palestine with reason to uphold a cease-fire. The negotiations, of course, took place with terrorists on the other side of the proverbial table, and it wasn't long before Hamas, with the help of Iran and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, used the Israeli pull-out as an opportunity to basically turn the Gaza Strip into one large Iranian missile base, interspersing rocket batteries in with homes and businesses owned and frequented by civilians. Since then, Hamas has been lobbing dozens of rockets into Israel, deliberately targeting schools, targeting supermarkets, targeting shopping districts. Just last week, Ahmadinejad threatened that Israel's days were numbered.
Hamas was taunting the tiger. Now, that tiger has no longer been satisfied with merely clawing at the bars and outer reaches of its enclosure, but has jumped the fence entirely.
Good.
Israel's response, however, has been derided by much of the left-leaning mainstream American media as being disproportionate. Nobody on the networks seems to care about the Israeli women and children targeted intentionally by Hamas; the news coverage focuses on the funerals in the Gaza Strip of those civilians unfortunately killed by Israeli forces in the process of destroying rocket batteries. Everybody is blaming the tiger. Nobody is blaming the agents provocateurs.
Yes, civilians have been killed. It's awful. The Israelis, however, are not the ones specifically targeting civilians, they're not the ones celebrating the murder of women and children. There is no moral equivalency when it comes to the war being waged by one side versus the other. There just isn't. Israel is responding to weeks and months and indeed years of attacks, using surgical precision in their response; Hamas is targeting civilians while simultaneously hiding behind civilians.
I am not an expert in this area of the world, or any area for that matter. I only have my gut--which is ample--to guide my feelings on this and other related issues. However, even aside from culture, from religion, from the specifics on either side of this perpetual dispute, nobody should continue to taunt a tiger and not expect at least a chance of catastrophic injury in return. The blood of Palestinian women and children are therefore on the hands of Hamas.
In the meantime, we can only pray that this somehow gets resolved, perhaps by bringing a country like Egypt--which has more at stake internationally--to take control of Gaza. I would hope that Israel does not back down and agree to a cease-fire so long as Hamas is still in control on the other side. Still, I just don't know. I don't know enough about the region, about the background, about the past and about the possibilities in the future to offer any serious insight.
I just know enough not to taunt a tiger.
UPDATE, 12:45pm:
Even early this afternoon, as I listen to a White House news conference on the radio, I hear the press asking why the United Nations' request for a superficial ceasefire was not good enough for the United States, I hear the press citing Palestinian deaths and asking why the president hasn't encouraged restraint on the part of Israel. I want to throw up. Why is it that those on the American political left constantly give the benefit of the doubt to terrorists?
The deaths of Palestinian civilians are solely the doing of Hamas, the same Hamas embraced just a week or so ago by our own Jimmy "Dhimmi" Carter. Their blood, the blood of those women and children killed in Gaza, is solely on the hands of Hamas.
I hope Israel does NOT accept any cease-fire which allows Hamas to retain control of Gaza. Hamas needs to know that there are deadly consequences for lobbing rockets into Israel. Each time. Every time.
Regardless, the naivete on the part of the liberal media just sickens me.
Posts
61 comments:
There is no appeasing any terrorist country or organization. Sharia Law is the predominate basis of actions taken by the terrorists. There is only one way to stop this horrible mess. That is to eliminate, in their entirety, the terrorists. That may not be politically correct, but I do not intend to be. America has been too soft through several "wars" now. You can't talk someone who wants to kill you with unbridled passion out of killing you with mere words. They cannot hope to understand you. They will, however, respond to definitve force. Dead men don't kill people.
A few months ago Congress
decided that it would be a good idea to open a
'Office" in Iran to monitor
travel, etc... That was most likely done to place
American Worker's there so
that Isreal would not be able to "Nuke Em back to the
Stone Age where Iran belong's. Now, the MSM seems to be taking sides with Hamas. They even refuse to call them terrorist's! Dan
I can tell you what the Seattle Times had to say about the conflict and it wasn't nearly as balanced as your comments. They were quick to claim that nearly 300 Palestinians have been killed and very slow to admit that Gaza missiles have been fired into Isreal. Quick to deride Isreali sources and not even bothering to mention Hamas sources for the Palestinian deaths.
How can the people in this area find out what is really going on when this is all the news they get unless they take the initiative to go on the internet and find their own sources?
Personally, Jeff, I trust your gut way more than the journalists of the Seattle Times. And your opinions are still free :-)
Thanks.
.
You have the right instincts. Let's hope Israel doesn't back down, or all this will be repeated in spades.
.
I think your "ample" gut is right. Thanks for a great post. The analogy of the tiger is one that will forever be lost on the current purveyors of Mere Socialist Manure, better known as the MSM.
Happy New Year, Jeff.
God bless America!
Your gut feeling is right -- to a point...
The problem is that until and unless Israeli turn Gaza Strip into a parking lot, the story will repeat itself again and again. Unfortunately, there's a great chance that this time there will be no difference -- Israeli politicos and international media will prevent IDF from cleaning up this nest of venomous snakes. This happened many times before...
Not a single Middle East analyst ever noticed that this conflict is, in fact, a cash cow for both HAMAS and Israeli political establishment. Over last 20 years, almost $100 Billions (yes, billions) have been pumped into this mess. If spent rationally, both Gaza Strip and West Bank would have had golden public urinals and Saudi's-envied infrastructure. Alas, all these funds landed at Swiss accounts of very few on both sides. Therefore, as long as money pours in, the conflict will be diligently maintained by both sides.
For good reading the Middle East, read Joel Rosenberg blog. His site is joelrosenberg.com He's also written an excellent book, Epicenter.
I am not a Jew. I am an infidel.
The Jews no one wanted after World War II turned that little part of the world into a beautiful jewel of a country surrounded by waste land owned by the Arab Muslims for thousands of years.
I have always admired Israel as one of the true free country’s of the world. Rather than learning from the Jews, the dysfunctional Muslims have waged war upon Israel ever since.
Now they are invading other countries around the world trying to force their backwards beliefs upon the modern world. Look at England. England! The stoic Brits were known for their toughness through out the world.
Time to Stop Being Politically Correct and Start Being Humanely Honest
The Hamas is quoted in the media: “NO TRUCE UNTIL ISRAEL STOPS ITS ATTACKS’
Oh Yea! How ‘bout this: “ISRAEL ATTACKS DON’T STOP UNTIL EVERY JEW HATING PALESTINIAN IS DEAD” .
If the Hamas refused to extend the six month peace agreement and barraged Israel with missiles, why does the Hamas think Israel is going to send them flowers?
It isn’t Israelis killing Muslims.
It is Muslims who kill Muslims by the religion they choose to practice and the hostilities the perpetrate upon Israel and other countries.
In light of all the commotions...
geopolitical
geological
wars and rumors of wars...
I offer ya'll:
http://www.tribulationperiod.com/
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsus/
scroll down and click the yellowstone link...
These evidences like Gaza, like the natural born issue and the like of which we have yet to see are all meant to get our attention to look upwards. providence desires that one consider 'when ye see these things come to pass' realize the years of history of Judaism and the appeal for the awarness of who the Christ is and why He came: Christianity's invitation....come unto me: your eternity...your place to come. It's near time...John 3:16
John 14:6...Eph 2:8&9...I Cor.15:52
SO as we approach the threshold of 2009...open your heart and believe
Happy New Year ya'll
All I have to say is good for The Israelis.
You play with fire ---you'll get burnt and Hamas is being burnt.
The Palestinians people are to blame. They give harbor to the Hamas.
If Cuba started lobbing rockets into Florida, you better believe the MSM would be screaming for the US to do something. This is no different, except that Israel has waited months, if not years to respond.
So long as the children of Palestine are taught to hate and long for death, I cannot see an end to this continuing problem. I have pity for the Palestinian people who long for peace but no sympathy for those who continually preach hate and terror. They had opportunities when they took over Gaza to develop their own state with working businesses but chose to build terror instead.
Pat in NC
I think thata Israel is doing just exactly what it needs to do, only this time, I hope that they don't give back everythingg that they gain to Palestine or Hamas in the form of appeasement after they have won the battle. Each time they have fought and won, they seem to think that they have to give back territory to those that they have just successfully defeated in battles that they did NOT start. They, Israel, have been fighting for their country's life since day one in 1945. Everyone around them has been trying totake it away from them since the lands were first given back to them by the Brits and the UN as a home for all those people that survived the Concentration camps, becasue the overflow from all those millions of homeless victims of Hitler had NOWHERE ELSE to go that would not disrupt and place huge burdens on any country in Europe that took a large portion of them in. Thus the Brits had this desert territory that wasn't producing much and had NO permanent residents to speak of, just a bunch of NOMADS that traversed it a couple of times a year and set up camps to stay in for trading purposes, and it really had nothing in the way of functioning cities in it that were of much consequence, so the Brits thougt that the Jews out of the Concentration camps could have the land and maybe make themselves a home there, again.
Israel doesn't owe any of that land to Hamas or "Palestine" in any way, because there really wasn't ever a people of Palestine before those NOMADS thought that they owned that land, which they didn't, it was a British Territory.
Personally, I hope against all hope int he world, that Israel finally puts the dog to rest and takes the bone aways from him so that he no longer has the temerity to think he has to get it back from Israel. In other words, I hope that Israel stops it for once and for all. Steps up and puts Hamas out of their misery and out of the misery of the rest of the world, for they are nothing but a bunch of thugs with high powered weapons given to them and funded by the Sauds, Iran and Russina. The Fatah party in the Governement of "Palestine" is a much better party to act with on negotiations of any sort and that is what is secretly being hoped will survive.
As far as the news media goes, this again, jsut shows how unbalanced and biased they are towards their goals. I willl never pay attention to anything that any of them have to say, I will listen, but discount everything that is given as opinion on anything from them, however, in the long run, I will pay attention to the computer for most of my "News" for the immediate future, or runtil the regular MSM starts to realize that they are not in the business of shaping public or political mindsets and futures. They are biased and holding their own biases up as the best and ONLY possible way to think and I am not a SHEEPLE.
John,
If missiles landed in Miami from Cuba, the MSM would blame us for the cheap construction of the buildings that collapsed, magnify any short-comings of the medical care received by victims, blame George Bush, and explain the event as the result of years of USA oppression. MSM would scream to open the floodgates of immigration from that tiny island because, after all, more Cubans would mean fewer missiles aimed at them. It would be the biggest political tool for nationalizing everything that you've ever seen. Every missile strike would send liberals salivating to the scene of the destruction so they could find something to complain about. Sad, but true.
As others before me have stated, GOOD FOR ISRAEL!! I cannot believe they waited so long to respond. Talk about keeping your anger in check.
As for Hamas, Iran, Syria, and other Arab nations...they don't want peace with Israel (res ispsa loquitor, the thing speaks for itself). They want peace WITHOUT Israel. Israel has no friends in the Middle East, and the United States is far from the friend it used to be.
I'm with Claudia...I hope Israel doesn't give up any more land. I think they have given up MORE than their share of concessions in negotiating peace in the Middle East...peace that will never exist because of Islam.
The MSM appears to be cheering for what Hitler didn't finish.
And how is it that so many of my Jewish acquaintances are liberal? I just don't get that.
Where are the moderate Muslims speaking out against this atrocity? Hmmm? Silence. All I hear is dead silence.
Your gut feelings are the same as mine. Thanks for posting.
Hamas is not calling for a ceasefire as we understand it. They are calling for "hudna" which means "we're losing. Let's call it off until we regroup"
The people living in Gaza who are crying and moaning and groaning about the missiles that have been killing them for the 4 days should look to the leaders of Hamas for comfort and help, not to the foreign presss or the UN or to American liberals for help. They should look to Hamas and demand that Hamas GET OUT of the neighborhoods that are populated by homes and places of prayer or schooling, and take their destructive agents of TERRORISM to places that only have warehouses and open fields to hide in, rather than hiding in amongst the homes and mosques that people who live there use daily. HAMAS is mailnly a bunch of COWARDS who are using the people of Gaza as shields to deflect the killing of themselves by holding up in the middle of regular citizens who will be killed in their place, ie, shield.... HAMAS are COWARDS that think they are TERRORISTS.
If the regular people of Gaza don't want to be killed by missiles aimed at HAMAS, they can leave the area, they can force HAMAS out of their area for their own safety, or they can make sure that they are out of the way when the missiles are being shot. They are the ones making the choice to sit there and be martyrs and hope that the world will back them up in that mindset. IF they want to survive, there are ways to do it..... and everyone seems to forget that Israel is offering help, food, transportation out, and all sorts of other incentives to get out of the aforementioned areas of target where HAMAS is hiding in COWARDICE among regular people. IF the people that are crying foul want to leave badly enough, there are ways to do it, no one is forcing them to stay in the middle of a war. Israel will welcome those WHO DO NOT BEAR ARMS AGAINST THEM into their country, and have always done so in the past. Israel has never been stingy with its aid or help to those that wanted and needed it to stay alive and become part of the Israeli dream.
tanarg:Right on the money with what you said about Islamic deceit (italicized below for reference).
We just finished reading the Chronicles of Narnia which is allegorical fiction for those who don't know.
In the last book, The Last Battle, there is a "Calormene Tarkaan" who is suddenly disenfranchised by his lifelong religious teachings and he says,
"Now when I first heard that we should march upon Narnia I rejoiced; for I had heard many things of you Land and desired greatly to meet you in battle. But when I found out that we were to go in disguised as merchants (which is a shameful dress for a warrior and the son of a Tarkaan) and to work by lies and trickery, then my joy departed from me."
I highly encourage all to read this. It is very relevant for our day. We are fast approaching the Last Battle as the "peaceloving Muslims" who are your neighbors are on the first phase of their mission. When their numbers are sufficient and we accept them "because they are such nice people", then watch out!
All manner of deceit is encouraged by Islam in order to infiltrate societies and in order to give the appearance of reasonableness and a willingness to live with other faiths in peace. Therefore, one cannot trust the peace protestations of Muslims; Islam tells them they must deceive us and appear harmless while they insinuate themselves into the fabric of the host countries.
Umm, Israel is not a tiger, it is a nation of human beings: human beings deciding to kill more human beings than necessary for its safety.
I don't think the right to defend oneself is the issue here, it's how far is far enough? If you walked into a fast food restaurant, and someone runs in with a gun, shooting, are you OK to pull out your semi-un-whatever-concealed weapon and shoot INDISCRIMINATELY? No. You have the right to go for the guy who's lost his lid--only. No one else threatened you.
Israel has the best weapons technology in the world--we sold it to them. They are more than capable of surgical strikes. They have chosen a different route. If you were an average Palestinian going to work, school, whatever, how could you say Israel cares a hoot about you? Or have they become animals--tigers to be exact? They are making a mistake and we have to have the guts to say so. Just because they are an ally does not mean they are immune to criticism.
I think you should do a little more research about the Israeli/Palestinian issue before commenting or posting. If you do, don't search recent history, go back about 60 years and progress forward to the 1967 6 day war and the resulting occupation of the Gaza Strip, West Bank and Golan Heights. It will give you some perspective. And remember, you can't always trust the main stream media that we both abhor so much.
Israeli assault on Hamas continues for fourth day
Israeli warplanes continue to pound Hamas installations inside the Gaza strip. Speculation about a ground assault continues, but no ground assault has occurred as of this post. There has been much condemnation of Israel for over responding to the daily Hamas rocket attacks from the Gaza strip. I support the Israeli actions. If a hundred rockets were being launched into the USA from foreign soil, we would have taken quicker and stronger measures than the Israelis have. Here is a missile's eye view of some of the action. Missile's eye view
"Where are the moderate Muslims speaking out against this atrocity? Hmmm? Silence. All I hear is dead silence."
Well you aren't going to find moderate Muslims speaking on a conservative blog, I mean look how everyone reacted here when a Muslim veteran posted his two cents on the War on Terror, bunch of moaning.
Anything they say would just go through one ear and out the other.
Tigress,
With all due respect, it is HAMAS which is concealing itself in residential areas, in and around schools. Civilian deaths at the hands of Israel are unfortunate, and a product of Hamas hiding among civilians -- whereas Israeli civilian deaths are the GOAL of Hamas.
Furthermore, while I understand where you're coming from, your fast food analogy needs a little work.
-- Jeff
The Jews were buying the land from the Ottoman empire in the 1800's. It was a desolate waste until they turned it into valable farmland - at which point more and more Arabs immigrated there to work for the Jews.
Nearly a hundred years later, the Egyptian, Yasir Arafat, decided the great and noble Palestinians (used to be a term for Jews in the region) had their land "stolen" by the Jews.
I guess if you whine that someone stole from you long enough then a few gullible people will believe you.
Jeff,
Can you comment on the new Berg suit? Go to Citizen Wells blog. Have you talked to Berg lately?
Jeff,
I thought winning the hearts and minds of the people is what the our troops in Iraq have found to be very effective. We have been cheering this tactic on for years--the troops really deserve a lot of credit for making it work. They spend weeks and months building relationships with the people there and it pays off when the people turn in terrorists. Israel should consider this. It works. You do not win hearts and minds by bombing. And after you've bombed, you cannot be surprised that the people there do not trust you and in fact hate you. I'm trying to argue logic here.
I do not by any stretch of the imagination condone Hamas' terrorism. There is no excuse for what they have instigated. I am just wondering which response is most effective.
Sorry you don't like my analogy (guess I was hungry). But the question is still how far is too far? What analogy would you use?
Tigress
Peace doesn't come from raising sheep. It comes from killing wolves.
Nothing but a good old fashioned Roman solution will solve the problems with Hamas and Hezbollah.
It's killing time. No time to stop now. Hunt the bastards down and end this thing, one by one.
Seeks Truth said...
Jeff,
Can you comment on the new Berg suit? Go to Citizen Wells blog. Have you talked to Berg lately?
Yes, I knew about it, but had no idea is was being filed TODAY. I'm still not sure how an interpleader action can properly work its way into this controversy -- I'll be asking him about it when I do a question-and-answer piece as planned.
If Hamas uses up all of their Iranian made rockets, perhaps they will come to the United States to get a bailout from Congress.
^^^^^^^
If I had good tee shirts, this man (or woman) would have just won one.
Fantastic.
The right thing to do is the right thing to do no matter which religion is involved and this is not a Jewish, Muslim issue, there are Christian Palestinians too.
This is a black and white issue to me. Go where the terrorists are and kill them when you find them.
Schools, churches, mosques, hospitals are all hiding places and so they become targets.
There were lots of beautiful places in Europe destroyed in both the wars. That's unfortunate but sometimes necessary.
Roll the Merkavas and let slip the dogs of war.
giving Gaza back to Egypt seems like a bad idea to me. Israel should keep it and sweep it and control the ports.
Peaceful Palestinians shouldn't be second class citizens but the terrorists should find no comfort anywhere within rocket range.
I am just trying to figure out how a group who stands for rights of unborn, unviable fetuses (just stating a fact, here) is OK with killing any and all innocents because they didn't have the means or brains to get out of the way. Please excuse my ignorance, but it just doesn't make sense to me. Life is life.
It is not the tactic we are using in Iraq, and I'm all rah-rah about that. It's been so successful, and, again, the troops deserve tons of credit.
I am an overweight pastor. I had a very deep revelation from the Lord Jesus when I was on my knees praying about my weight problem. His voice said to me; "my son eat less"!
As the mainstream media clamors in their anti Jewish ranting, I can hear the voice of the "true" Messiah saying ; "My children tell Hamas to stop lobbing rockets and all will be well!"
Tigress, believe me, Israel has the best intelligence agency and knew precisely where to bomb thanks to their contacts and moles. Hamas purposely places civilians in these buildings knowing what outrage Israel would face when there are civilian deaths and the MSM has gladly followed suit.
Hamas has been firing rockets into Israel for eight years. Did you know that? Now you tell me, if Canada or Mexico bombarded our borders, would the US say "please, let's sit down and settle this?" No, we wouldn't and the US would put a stop to it after 8 seconds with equal force, I would hope.
Hamas are terrorists. Hezbollah are terrorists. They serve Iran and want nothing more than to see you, me and anyone else who does not follow radical Islam and believe in a Jewish state - to be dead. As for Israel itself, they want Jews and the state vanished from the region and off the map.
Israel is not interested in keeping Gaza. They would like nothing more than for the Palestinians to live there in peace and to leave Israelis the hell alone. When Hamas was voted in, that possibility became an impossibility. A week ago Benjamin Netanyahu met with French President Sarkozy to discuss the global threat of a nuclear Iran and about plans for an Israeli-Palestinian peace.
http://jta.org/news/article/2008/12/21/1001711/netanyahu-tells-sarkozy-nuclear-iran-dangerous
There are no hearts and minds to win where there are no hearts and minds to begin with.
I wish Israel would stand up once and for all and "flip off" the UN and the "world community" with a giant FU and finish off the problem.
No more conceding to the terrorists. No more giving away land in exchange for a promise of peace that ends up with more attacks. I mean bomb those Islamig MFs to kingdom come. Let them meet their freakin' virgins in the after life. I don't care. Enough is enough and I am so ready to see someone do the right thing.
Unfortunately, Israel will cave just as the always do and the terrorists will never stop.
>>Israel should consider this.>>
Israel did not kick the Palestinians out - they left of their own volition. Israel has Arab/muslim citizens who have the same rights as Israeli citizens (other than voting, I think). In other words, those who wish to live in peace with the Israelis can do so - the rest live in what they call Palestine and/or Gaza. Of their own choice. If you burn your bridges, there's no going back.
Before posting here, I will disclose my built in bias. I am a Messianic Jew, therefore you can guess where my sympathies lie.
I have so much I could say about the whole Israel/Palestinian issue...but my lack of time to post limits me to just saying this...
Look at a map... there is no country, no such place as Palestine. There is only Israel. I won't even get into the history, etc. Here's my point. If the palestinians and Hamas (a terrorist organization) refuse to live in peace within Israel's borders, then Israel can and should take all measures to protect themselves. If this means bombing Gaza and palestinian territories to smitherines...I'm all for it. As far as I'm concerned, it's about time that Israel stopped cow-towing to these people and the political correctness machines around the world and did what is right for them.
Just an aside, anyone who reads the bible will know that there will never truly be peace in the middle east. At least not for Israel. I believe these goings on to be a sign of the end times.
Say a prayer for Israel.
Lisa
pedalgirl@gmail.com
www.pedalgirl.net
>>Please excuse my ignorance, but it just doesn't make sense to me.>>
Tigress...
Look at it this way. If every single Hamas member, and every citizen of Gaza, and every person who considers him/herself a Palestinian were to put down their weapon, what would be the result? What would happen to those individuals?
If every Israeli put down his/her weapon, and all weapons of destruction were eliminated, what would happen to Israel? What would happen to the Israeli people?
I think the answers will give you some perspective.
Jeanette,
If Israeli intelligence is so great, why didn't they prevent this and/or why weren't they able to stop it quickly? I am only talking about the incidents of the past few days. Here's a look at what 'surgical' strikes are and compared to what Israel is doing now:
http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/12/29/why-the-israeli-military-response-in-gaza-is-bullshit/#more-9615
Long range, though, imho, there has to be an approach similar to the US's in Iraq.
It has been difficult to watch the media in this regard.. Of course no coverage if the terrorists bombing Israel. I get more upset each day with everything going on.
Its not just naivete on the part of the media, friend.
If history is any guide, Carter and Clinton quickly come to mind, at a minimum the next 4 years at least in terms of Middle East affairs do not bode well for us or the world.
In fact a glimpse into our future is found in Israel today. Witness Israel's left, falling in the polls prior to impending elections they decide its time to attack after years of feckless inaction, appeasement and hand wringing.
Now that they have acted, their misanthropes criticize the disproportionality of the action. Its ironic, if not comical, for it is only because of their failed policies all these years that so much force now is needed to excise Iran's cancer from Israel's back yard.
Sadly, while we on the Right applaud the action and those on the Left condemn it, its clear both sides dare not question its motives: the left's power-lust versus its moral turpitude.
Like Clinton and Carter before him, this too will be BHO's legacy.
Israel should turn the Gaza strip into a glass beach.
URGENT: PLEASE BROADCAST THIS EVERYWHERE
Per Ed Hale from Plains Radio:
"Plains Radio (www.plainsradio.com) has now been told that they will receive a certified copy of the Obama and Dunham divorce decree, dated 1964. This document will be released on the Plains radio network tomorrow night at 6 pm central, 12/31/08”
A New Years Gift!
Ed wants to make sure we have a full audience tomorrow night!
Jeff, a couple of techical clarifications, if I may, regarding what you wrote in the following sentence.
"Israel, some time ago, pulled all settlors and soldiers out of the Gaza Strip with the understanding that it would provide Hamas-controlled Palestine with reason to uphold a cease-fire."
The above is techically and historically incorrect.
In 2005 when Ariel Sharon was Prime Minister of Israel, the Israeli government unilaterally pulled thousands of settled Israeli citizens from the Gaza strip. For 38 years (1967-2005) Gaza had been a conquered territory formerly belonging to the belligerent state of Egypt. Sharon unilaterally relinquished Israeli sovereignty over Gaza to the Palestinian Authority - NOT HAMAS- in the erroneous hope that the Palestinian National Authority could execute all the necessary obligations of a state-in-waiting to the people of that territory and pursuant to the PA's transitioning to a government of an independent nation state.
The PA fractured along sectarian and religious/ideological lines and the formerly ruling Fatah faction of the PA was overthrown in a blitzkreig military coup d'etat in Gaza by HAMAS.
Hope this helps your understanding. The rest of your comments are 100% accurate.
Suek,
With all due respect, neither side is totally without blame. It is simply not possible.
http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/12/30/israel-from-mensch-to-bully/#more-9711
Hamas' actions are indefensible (10 dead), but so are Israel's (370 dead). It used to be the argument for supporting Israel was so that we could have a base in the area. With all our technological advances, what reason remains for the USA? What now makes Israel so different from other countries who face similar threats?
Tigress said...
"Hamas' actions are indefensible (10 dead), but so are Israel's (370 dead)."
Baloney. HAMAS is a designated terrorist organization. Israel is a recognized nation state. HAMAS the terrorist entity has been for years firing missilies and mortars into the cities of southern Israel. Israel repeatedly warned "Palestinian" and neighboring Arab nations alike that the missile and mortar fire had to stop - or else.
Israel has militarily responded to HAMAS unprovoked aggression as is the right of any nation on the face of this earth to defend its population and infrastructure from acts of terrorism.
Israel has the right to totally destroy the HAMAS terrorist organization as much as the U.S. seeks to destroy al-Qa'ida or wage war against those who support the organization.
The history of this area is extraordinarily complex, with both sides having a long, GUILTY record. For that reason, I have trouble taking a side on the issue. There does tend to be a typical pattern in recent conflicts: Palestinians do as Jeff said -- they attack all (incl innocents) and hide among innocents. But they tend to do a small amount of damage (comparatively; it is still quite a lot). Israelis tend to try to target the perpetrators only, but they use such great force that they also end up killing innocents. So on the one hand Palestinians are fighting dirty, but on the other hand Israelis are doing more harm.
However, it's completely useless to look at just recent activity when this conflict has much more history. When you do that, you see that both sides have been provoked by each other for decades. Both sides are very highly motivated by religious texts regarding specifics of the land that they fight over.
I am not a middle eastern scholar and I thus do not feel qualified to comment on the matter and decide that one side is evil and the other is not. However, I am confused by Jeff's claim about the MSM and that "everyone" is "blaming the tiger." The way I see it, we live in a pro-Israeli country. Our take on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict tends to be pro-Israeli. The media feel as though they need to be "neutral", so they present the other side as well, but even they on average are pro-Israeli. Is this what counts as "blaming the tiger"? Liberals, too, as far as I can tell, tend to claim they are agnostic on the issue; they don't actually go and side with the Palestinians! I suppose that if the Israelis are definitely in the right and Palestinians are definitely wrong then being "neutral" can seem like being extremely biased. I'll give you that. All I'm saying is that my take is that both sides are right and wrong, and the history of the issue is so complex that it's hard to say with conviction that the Israeli side is the good side.
>>With all due respect, neither side is totally without blame. It is simply not possible.>>
With all due respect, you didn't answer the two questions.
Since you'd apparently prefer to ignore the obvious, I'll do it for you.
If every palestinian person were to drop all arms tomorrow, there would be peace between the two countries.
If every Israeli person were to drop all arms tomorrow, the palestinians would kill every Israeli within Israel's borders - and outside them, if they could. They would wipe out Israel.
Another few questions for you. What is the land mass of Israel compared to the land mass of all the muslim countries in the middle east? How many muslims live in Israel? How many Jews live in the muslim countries?
Diplomacy + terrorism = Peace
is the same as
2 + 2 = 5
Talking and making deals with these people will never work. We will be in the same situation with obama as president. He thinks he can make nice with these people who hate our guts and trust them to uphold agreements. What a fool.
Isreal needs to strike with FULL vengeance upon these terrorists.
Um, yes, Hamas is a terrorist organization. "Palestinians" are not a terrorist organization. All I'm saying is go for the terrorists--100% fair game--and how far is too far in terms of collateral damage?
In Iraq, the US does not take the stance of wiping out all Iraqis just because Al-Qaida works and hides among them.
Land mass is irrelevant. My point is that the historical reason for supporting Israel is evolving. (Please note that this is not an anti-Israeli statement.)
The "Palestinian" people voted for either HAMAS or the PLO to be their elected leadership. Both HAMAS and the PLO are terrorist organizations. What does that make the Palestinian people?
Iraqi's did not elect al-Qaeda to run their government.
See the difference?
With respect to the land-mass issues being raised... that issue will be addressed in short order by a higher power. Israel is destined (i.e. by eternal blood covenant of YHWH) to enlarge its territory by at least 20-fold.
One more item... contrary to some statements... "Allah" is not the same as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Israel), and it was not the angel Gabriel who squeezed Muhammad so tightly that he thought he would die. So who was it that imparted the Quran to the illiterate Muhammad? The answers may be found here and HERE.
>>In Iraq, the US does not take the stance of wiping out all Iraqis just because Al-Qaida works and hides among them.>>
This is true. We took extraordinary measures to minimize collateral damage. Some would even say irrational measures, and our soldiers were the ones who paid the price. The fault lies with Hamas, however, if they deliberately site their munitions and rockets in civilian-concentrated areas.
Jeff, your take on this epitomizes the only disagreement I have with you, conservative to conservative. Israel is an occupying power which has never adherred to the UN borders it SWORE to abide by. The US media always portrays Israel as reactive to Pal aggression, but the rest of the world's media not monopolized by Jewish interests seems to disagree. The real goal of Israel is to make the Palestinians so miserable that whoever doesn't get killed will move. Israel seeks to expand its territory, and it doesn't care how long it takes. So the settlements keep expanding, bit by bit, day by day. Have to hand it to the Jewish people though: they're smart enough to fool intelligent people into thinking that they're somehow the victims; and they're smart enough to make the US do their dirty work (Iraq, Afghanistan, and soon Iran) and make us think it's a war against the "terrorists." By the time Americans wake up to who their real enemy is, it will be far too late.
Sean,
The Palestinian people elected Hamas to represent them just as we elected Barack Obama to represent us. Therefore, THEY are ALL so obviously backing Hamas as evidenced by the videos clips we see of them celebrating Hamas just as WE are ALL backing Obama based of the video clips the world sees of us celebrating Obama.
Not.
The latest anonymous post compels me to reply and ask...which planet have you beamed down from? Perhaps your cells got a little mixed up in the transporter room. I don't know which US media YOU watch, but the media in my area, along with the national news, is very anti-Israel. They report on the conflict as though it is all Israel's fault...just as you opine. Israel has been more than honorable in its dealings with Palestinians and the terrorist group HAMAS. Are you of Arab heritage? Your perception (thinly veiled hatred, actually) of Israel and of the American media sort of tell me that you are. Anyone who could watch ABC, CBS, FOX or NBC news and come away thinking they are pro-Israel is not really listening with both ears.
Tigress thinks that land mass and population are unimportant. I disagree, and found the statistics presented on this page of be of interest. Your mileage may vary.
http://www.factsofisrael.com/stats2.html
Suek,
I am not sure what your point is about Israeli land mass. Of course it is relevant to the Israelis, but I am saying it is not relevant to US foreign policy. If it was only about population and square mileage, it would be pretty simple to derive a mathematical formula for dictating what *we* want every country on Earth to give up, take, or settle with, and it would change 99% of the world. That's would be patently ridiculous.
US foreign policy is for the benefit of the US, period. I do not see the need to defend every single thing Israel does simply because they have historically been an ally. They are not a US state, they are a separate country. The balance of power issues we used to be concerned about in the region are naturally evolving, and our foreign policy will evolve along with it. That is not an anti-Israeli or anti-Palestinian statement. It is a pro-US statement.
Tigress,
I had posted a response to you yesterday, but it did not show up on the board, so I will try again.
Intelligence isn't gathered to merely keep an eye on threats. HAMAS in Gaza has been firing rockets for years - YEARS, and Israel did not fire back until this past week, when HAMAS did not renew the truce and started up again.
Israel, with the intelligence done on where the HAMAS leaders are, pinpointed their assault.
That article from Larry Johnson is biased and I am surprised he wrote such a piece as I have always respected his opinion. (If you read the comments posted by the readers, the majority are not in agreement with him.) He knows that terrorists are cowards and purposefully keep civilians as human shields and to ward off attacks. The civilians are either willingly or unwillingly with them and in some cases, are family members. If they valued human life so much, then why use such tactics?
There is no quick fix to this.
Also, as for HAMAS being elected by the Palestinians - Jimmy Carter was there as caretaker to the elections and he did not raise an objection to a known terrorist organization being on the ballot. If he had done so, then the international community may have weighed in and kept these heathens off the ticket. Why bring legitimacy to a known terrorist organization? The millions in dollars in aid may be distributed by them, but a HUGE portion is kept for their terrorist activities.
You want to swallow what the MSM, particularly CNN, reports, then do so with the caveat that a clear and present danger is being tackled so that their tentacles are not allowed to grow.
Have a happy 2009 and peace be unto all of us.
PS--I forgot to add that the whole reason we are so worried about the Constitutional eligibility of Barack Obama is because we do not want any chance of someone with dual loyalties leading our country. I find it highly ironic that more people do not question the motivations of the Israeli lobbyists in Washington. As private citizens, we each have our loyalties and loves, and many Jewish people obviously care deeply about Israel. But when it comes to policy, we must remember we are Americans, not Israelis or British or Kenyan or whatever, and we must craft our policy to fit America's best interest only.
Does this make sense to anyone?
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