Berg Files New Eligibility-Related Action in District Court in D.C.
Philadelphia attorney Philip Berg filed a new lawsuit today in the United States District Court for the District of Columbia, once again suggesting that the currently vacationing Barack Obama is constitutionally ineligible to serve as president of the United States, and once again hoping to compel disclosure of any personal information relevant to the question.
He also filed a motion in which he asked the court to compel the defendants, in this case both Obama and Joseph Biden, to respond to the complaint within ten days, putting the proposed deadline at January 8, 2009, the same day the Electoral College votes are to be counted.
Berg's first suit, filed in district court in Philadelphia on August 21, 2008 and broken here at America's Right, alleged that because Obama was likely born in Kenya rather than Hawaii as he contends, and because he was likely adopted by his Indonesian stepfather and never regained U.S. citizenship, his presidency would be invalid pursuant to Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution which holds that only "natural born" citizens can hold the office of the president. Facets of that first action will be discussed in a pair of conferences at the United States Supreme Court on January 9 and January 16, 2009. This new suit, Hollister v. Soetoro, is part of what Berg calls a "concerted effort to find a legal avenue to expose the truth about Barack Obama, joins his original action as well as a related suit filed under seal under the False Claims Act, and is markedly different from anything Berg has filed before.
"For starters," Berg said, "this is an interpleader action which, properly done, would shift the burden of proof onto Barack Obama to show that he is indeed eligible to serve as president of the United States. Also different, we've filed the suit on behalf of a retired Air Force colonel and done so against Barry Soetoro a.k.a. Barack Obama, and not the other way around. That, we believe, is his real name anyway."
Who is Hollister, and why is he suing?
Col. Gregory S. Hollister served for 20 years in the Air Force, from 1978 to 1998. His military record, attached as an exhibit to the Hollister v. Soetoro complaint, is packed with decorations.
Even above and beyond his military service, Col. Hollister's background provides a good look into his political ideology. This year, he served on the regional leadership team of Colorado Veterans for John McCain, but his [very welcome] conservative activism runs deeper than that. In 2003, for example, Hollister ran for city council in his native Colorado Springs, Colorado, announcing plans to encourage the city to host a pilot program to reform Medicare and Medicaid, permit younger residents to privatize their social security funds, and corroborate with school districts to establish a voucher program. In 2004, he made a small contribution to President George W. Bush's re-election campaign, and has donated to congressional Republicans since then. Furthermore, at this time last year, Hollister was tossing around the idea of suing MoveOn.org for libel and defamation following the publishing of a full-page newspaper advertisement which portrayed Gen. David Petraeus as a traitor.
"We, in the profession of arms, take an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States," Hollister wrote in an e-mail to the Wake Up America blog in September 2007. "We do not take an oath to support the President, the Congress, or the DoD. The oath is to the Constitution, its values and ideals. This includes the guarantee of free speech, however, it also provides that we, the defenders of freedom, have certain rights as well. One such right is to defend ourselves when our integrity and honor are defamed. Move On.org not only crossed the line in that regard – they are nowhere near it in this libelous action."
According to Berg, Hollister approached him a perplexed man. Here he was, Berg said, in the Individual Ready Reserve, subject to presidential recall essentially for the rest of his life, and he wasn't sure how his Oath of Enlistment would comport with a Commander-in-Chief who may or may not be constitutionally qualified to serve in that office. From the complaint:
Plaintiff is literally caught between a rock and a hard place. If reactivated, he comes under a duty to obey lawful orders. He would come under a duty, under at least certain circumstances, to disobey unlawful orders. He would come under a duty to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. But to whom will these duties be owed from January 20, 2009 on? And against whom will these duties operate? Soetoro or Biden?
This dilemma is particularly distressful to the Plaintiff in light of the current state of the law on obeying or disobeying unlawful orders. The Armed Forces themselves construe their oath to obey orders to require only that they obey lawful orders.
"If Barack Obama is sworn in as president of the United States on January 20th, he is essentially usurping the powers of that office," Berg said. "When the truth comes out, and it will, it means that all of the laws he signed off on will come back, and his orders deemed invalid."
Because of the outward appearance of a contrived "strawman" action due to what could be perceived as Hollister's "token" presence as plaintiff, however, Berg could once again run afoul of much of the same Article III "case or controversy" jurisdictional requirements for the district court which plagued his own eponymous action. Nevertheless, Berg maintains Hollister's continued military service should provide him with the standing necessary to hurdle the first procedural roadblock to many federal cases.
"The question came up before about who had standing, about if I didn't have standing, who did," Berg said. "Well, God forbid, for example, if we had to decide whether or not to use our nuclear weapons in the future, given the oath that they take to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic, would the senior members of the United States military be under a legal duty to obey the orders of Barack Obama as Commander-in-Chief, or would they be under a legal duty to disobey the order of someone who may not be eligible, under the Constitution they swore to defend, to be in that position in the first place?"
What is interpleader, anyway?
An interpleader action is a procedure by which a party--known as a "stakeholder"--can ask the court to consider and determine proper ownership of, or interest in, certain disputed funds or property. Interpleader is generally used when multiple claims arise with regard to the proceeds from an insurance policy -- if the insurance company in question cannot determine who among the possible beneficiaries should receive the proceeds, rather than pay benefits to the wrong party and be forced to pay again down the road, the company can essentially pay the court to decide.
For the record, there are two types of interpleader, one from Rule 22 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, the other from the United States Code. There are distinct differences between the two, but for the sake of Berg's new case, I'm not sure the differences are essential, as Berg cites both and because, well, wiggling an eligibility-related claim against Barack Obama into an interpleader action seems, to me, a little like trying to shove a square peg through a round hole.Since he told me a few days ago about his plans to file an interpleader action, I've been trying to wrap my head around how Berg could possibly use this procedure in such a manner. I've read more than a half million civil filings in the past half-dozen years, and never have I seen anything of the sort. Interpleader requires property, after all, and the question I kept on coming back to was simple enough -- where's the property?
Berg contends that the property in question here is actually the duties owed to a Commander-in-Chief and the relationships between Hollister and those in his chain of command. In the complaint, Berg cites several cases which purportedly show that, over time, the federal courts have decided that property need not be as tangible as, say, proceeds from a life insurance policy.
"Property can be intangible res," Berg said. "The courts have also held that relationships, such as those between a landlord and a tenant or an employer and an employee, can be recognized as property."
The Constitutional Crisis and Hollister v. Soetoro
"We're there," said Berg, when asked about whether or not he feels the nation is still threatened by much of the uncertainty cited in his various legal actions. "We've reached a constitutional crisis, and unless the courts see the significance of these issues, we could be headed for complete disaster."
Hollister v. Soetoro, Berg maintains, is just part of an ongoing effort to find the correct legal solution to the problems created by what he says is an undervetted candidate. Sure, he said, he hopes that the Supreme Court finds that he has standing in his first case, the case facing conference in just over a week, but he wants to ensure that all of his eggs are not in one basket.
"This is by far the greatest hoax ever seen in American history," he said. "We're in virgin territory here, and we don't quite know the best way to reach our goal, we don't quite know how the courts and how the people will react to a certain method or procedure. All I can do is stand firm, and stand behind the rights of 320 million people, and I will continue to do so until Barack Obama comes out and acknowledges the history made on November 4th but admits that, due to things in his background, he will not be able to serve as president of the United States."
NOTE: Keep checking back in coming days for more coverage at America's Right, including but not limited to an interview in which Philip Berg discusses not only both cases, but also his gut feelings about the Supreme Court, rumors of one or more congressmen who could stand up and protest Obama as president-elect, the distractions by Andy Martin and those who lost focus and deviated from the constitutional questions at the heart of the matter, and what Berg says is the possibility of internal and external blackmailing of President Barack Obama.
In many ways, I started this, and feel obligated to see it to fruition, as fairly as I possibly can.
-- Jeff


59 comments:
One of the things Phil mentioned on the radio is the suit he filed today on behalf of a military person subject to recall to active duty, especially likely to serve in Iraq or Afghanistan.
This person would have standing as he is at risk of orders by a potential POTUS, who is not eligible to serve.
wow, you guys are really a train wreck
Okay, anon, but that makes you a rubber necker. nana nana, boo boo.
Move along, nuthin' to see here. Nope. Nada. Not even a genuine vault version of Barry's birth record. Hmmmmmmmm.......
Though it sickens me more than words can ever hope to convey, Osama Obama will be seated as POTUS. The fallout that would occur if he were to be declared ineligible would put any riots this country has ever seen to shame. I think there is a much bigger plan being carried out here that none of us can fully see or understand.
Jeff-In order for the presidential and vice presidential candidates of a qualified political party to appear on the Hawaii ballot the party must have filed, 60 days prior to the general election, a sworn application with the chief election officer in the Office of Elections. The application shall include:
“A statement that each candidate is legally qualified to serve under the provisions of the United States Constitution;…”
If Obama is not a natural born citizen, then the Democratic Party filed a false application with the State of Hawaii under penalty of perjury. Thus, a crime was committed.
It would seem to me that someone in Hawaii could by-pass Obama and go after the Democratic Party for filing a false application. Make the Party produce the supporting documentation for the assertion in their application that Obama meets the constitutional qualifications.
Talk About Hypocrites
AdvanceIndiana.com
Plenty of pols and pundits have had a field day making fun of those of us who believe the constitutional eligibility requirements for being president of the United States should be enforced in accordance with its original intent. "Blah", they say. That would mean Barack Obama cannot become president because he is not a natural born citizen as the term was understood to mean at the time of the adoption of the U.S. Constitution in 1787. Ergo, we're just going to infer he's a natural born citizen because his mother was a U.S. citizen at the time of his birth, even if his father was not.
In lockstep, those same pols and pundits, including Obama himself, are instructing the U.S. Senate to ignore the law and the Constitution and refuse to appoint Roland Burris as Obama's Senate replacement. The Constitution calls for it and Illinois law requires Gov. Rod Blagojevich to appoint Obama's replacement. Because the governor is facing a yet-to-be filed indictment and the General Assembly has commenced impeachment proceedings against him, the powers that be, none of whom have clean hands in this matter, want to defer the appointment to Lt. Gov. Pat Quinn, who presumbably will become governor under the Illinois Constitution if Blagojevich resigns, or is impeached and convicted by the General Assembly. The impeachment process, to date, has been a complete embarrassment.
Just weeks ago, the Illinois General Assembly met in a special session for the purpose of passing legislation requiring a special election to fill Obama's vacancy. Democratic House Speaker Mike Madigan decided his daughter, Attorney General Lisa Madigan, might not be able to win the special election should she decide to seek the seat. Despite pleas from Republicans to act immediately, Madigan blocked the legislation. Blagojevich had even agreed to sign the legislation if the legislature made it applicable to all appointments by the governor to the U.S. Senate and not just this special election.
Daughter Madigan had already been laughed out of the Illinois Supreme Court for attempting to unconstitutionally have Blagojevich relieved of his duties because of disability. Lt. Gov. Pat Quinn wants to appoint Madigan so he can get her out of the way for his 2010 bid for governor and appoint an attorney general replacement for her, further strengthening his position. Secretary of State Jesse White may want to run for governor himself, and he is refusing to perform his ministerial duty to sign the appointment of Burris made by the governor and to forward it to the U.S. Senate. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid has already announced the Senate will defy the U.S. Constitution and refuse to seat Burris. And President-elect Obama is seconding Reid on that action.
If this weren't such serious business, it would be funny. There's certainly plenty of material there for people who make their living as stand-up comedians. The piety of these people to actually think they are any better than Blagojevich. Hypocrites, all of them, I say. Forget the fact that Burris has greater qualifications than anyone else who aspires to this post, including the guy who created this mess by being elected president. Only in Illinois could politicians make Blagojevich appear a little saner and cleaner than he appeared just weeks ago as he was being hauled off in handcuffs by FBI agents.
Jeff:
You said it quite well "wiggling an eligibility-related claim against Barack Obama into an interpleader action seems, to me, a little like trying to shove a square peg through a round hole."
I predict the ONLY thing this newest legal fiasco will accomplish is angering the court so fiercely that it will FINALLY impose much deserved Rule 11 sanctions on Berg. Berg is, of course, ALREADY familiar with such sanctions. Back in 2005 Judge Joyner sanctioned his lunatic as#.
This really is a complete train wreck. Sad in a way, but amusing as all he*l to watch nontheless! A good lesson in how NOT to practice law.
from law dot com article on Berg's rule 11 sanctions:
Finding that a Pennsylvania lawyer had committed a "laundry list of unethical actions," a federal judge has imposed more than $10,000 in sanctions and ordered the lawyer to complete six hours of ethics training.
U.S. District Judge J. Curtis Joyner's 10-page opinion in Holsworth v. Berg is packed with criticism of the conduct of attorney Philip Berg of Lafayette Hill, Pa.
"Other attorneys should look to Mr. Berg's actions as a blueprint for what not to do when attempting to effectively and honorably perform the duties of the legal profession," Joyner wrote.
Here may be some new evidense sometime today: http://investigatingobama.blogspot.com/
Divorce papers may indicate where obama was born.
Wake up people! Barry, Barack or what ever his real name is has played the American public like a piano, but I don't think the Supreme Court is going to allow him to play them.
Obama has claimed ignorance to all persons and incidents thus far, but announces from Hawaii that he supports the democrat caucus in the senate's position not to recognize an appointment by Gov Blago. He should have kept his mounth shut since he has not met the letter of the law either!
The appointment of Roland Burris to the vacate senate seat in Illinois is going to trigger another constitutional challenge against the SOS and Sen Reid's refusal to seat him. this is going to be interesting to watch.
Oh, happy day, and happy new year!
This is going to take more than one cup of coffee! It has boggled my mind that Berg has answered my prayer...AGAIN!
Wonder if Barry Soetoro, or whatever his name is, feels like his back is against the wall?! Bet the Supreme Court Justices are buzzing among themselves as well!
Jeff, America is deeply indebted to you for your site. While it openly airs the events initiated to protect and defend this country, it also provides an opportunity for its citizens to share their thinking. This opportunity to ask questions and share thoughts lends to understanding the enormity and complexity of our electoral and judicial systems based upon our Constitution.
People keep talking about riots, but I don't understand why. (Soetoro/Obama is the one at fault, not the ones who seek the truth.) That is, unless the millions of illegal aliens in this country rise up to protest having their free ride derailed. Now, that I could see.
My inbox is filled every morning with pleas for donations to keep certain sites open, to send faxes, to support every cause. America's Right is the one we should be supporting with every spare cent possible. I don't know if Jeff has to pay his stable of writers or not. No one has asked, and no one has said.
Thank You, God, for the Internet, for Jeff, his writers, and for Phil Berg and the other attorneys working to protect our freedom! Because of them, our flag is showing signs of life again. Amen.
LOL Obama's gonna become president whether anyone likes it or not. If Bush lost the elections in 2000 and still became president why the h** can't Obama also be president. The constitution holds no grounds anymore, it has been raped, violated and abused by the right AND left for 8 years. Why should everyone now run to it begging for Justice?
it's a shame you'd flesh out an artice to this length without speaking to an unbiased source for a differing opinion. Berg is a bit of a nut - judging ONLY by his PAST history of lawsuits (9/11 in particular) - and was a very partisan Clinton supporter - not to mention, some of the language he uses is extreme. I'm not convinced that Berg only cares about Berg and loves all this attention...
Jeff, Thank you for enlightening us on this case and clarifying the legal terminology.
As Anon said,
"Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid has already announced the Senate will defy the U.S. Constitution and refuse to seat Burris. And President-elect Obama is seconding Reid on that action."
The train has left the station and they are going to do what darn well please. Didn't you get the memo? It's Rex Lex, not Lex Rex.
The serfs need a good ol' Peasant Revolt.
If Mr. Berg should be reprimanded for his improper
use of the legal system (as you say), then where does that put Mr. Obama? He is a fraud, and has placed this country's constitution in jeopardy because of his and his party's greed and selfishness.
This article was posted three hours ago. It states that a divorce degree was found that shows Obama was born in Kenya (http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/williams/081231). Of course after the Michelle Obama tape deal, I will keep my eyes open until they post the document.
If Obama is allowed to become a U.S. President, although he is not a natural Born Citizen, all so called laws become void. Rob a bank, run red lights, murder who you wish ect.. We will become a lawless Country. We will have no need for police, judges, senator's ect... America becomes a free for all. Jan 20, 09 will be the death of America. Good thing we still have a right to bare arms. Happy New Year. :)
Following the ruling in the Berg case by the Circuit Court in PA based on “lack of standing”, the thought occurred to me that a similar case brought by a member of the Armed Forces, most specifically, a commissioned officer, would be extremely difficult for any court to similarly dismiss. This is because such a plaintiff would indeed suffer “irreparable harm” to his or her career and livelihood by questioning the authority of the Commander-in-Chief, whether successful or not. Therefore, it would be a very risky endeavor and one that, understandably, any but the most dedicated active career officer would be reluctant to bring forth.
While lacking the legal knowledge to analyze Mr. Berg’s technical approach in this new case as Jeff has done, I think that it was very wise to bring this suit on behalf of Col. Gregory S. Hollister, an officer who is retired but subject to reactivation.
As a former Air Force officer who resigned my commission many years ago to reenter civilian life, I do not believe that my resignation relieved me from the solemn oath that I had taken when I was first commissioned to “support and defend the Constitution of the United States.” It is for this reason that I support the efforts of people like Jeff Schreiber, Phillip Berg, and others to resolve this question regarding the eligibility of Barack Obama to serve as the President of the United States. While I do not agree with Mr. Berg’s contention that Obama is definitely not a natural born citizen, I feel that there are enough questions surrounding the issue and sufficient uncertainty to warrant more than simply ignoring the issue, as even many of my fellow conservatives are willing to do. If that makes me one of the wearers of a “tinfoil hat”, as so many critics suggest, so be it. Better that, than someone who is unconcerned about the Law of Our Land.
I wish success for Mr. Berg and Col. Hollister in their efforts, and offer kudos to Jeff for keeping us well informed on the issue.
it's a shame you'd flesh out an artice to this length without speaking to an unbiased source for a differing opinion.
Unbiased source? Is there such a thing? Doubtful.
Differing opinion? Looks like we already have some differing opinions according to the comments. You can thank Jeff for not censoring divergent views unlike other sites that silence everyone they don't agree with. Or else they use profanity to attack persons rather than to civilly discuss ideas. Yep, Jeff is one of those conservatives for ya that believes in free speech.
If you or anyone would politely offer a different opinion without resorting to obscenity, I am sure Jeff will publish it.
There was a statement made by PEBO that I am para phrasing but it went something like "We have the law on our side". It was a statement made to a query of his "eligibility".
He has admitted on his own website of his dual citizenship that "expired" when he turned 18. This of course by itself is enough to deem him unqualified as a "naturalized" citizen. (And for the life of me I can't understand why someone just didn't pull the plug based on that a long time ago)
But could have something in his back pocket that could allow him to become president? He has, after all, a Harvard degree in constitutional law. Could he be banking on the premise that there is no mechanism in place to stop him? Will he just simply state that the "will of people trumps all else"?
Jeff, Have you seen this case? It is in the state of Washington. Interesting.
OBAMA WATCH CENTRAL
WorldNetDaily Exclusive
Eligibility case
finds 'standing'?
New suit claims unique state law
enables citizens to demand proof
--WND
Jeff
Are you really this stupid or is this some kind of an experiment as to how far someone with a tiny bit of knowledge can lead a group of ignorant people? It is really difficult to tell. Most of the people involved with these conspiracy theories are ignorant, poor English skills, believe anything they read...etc. You do not seem to fit that mold, as you are fairly well educated, but your thoughts and ideas are pure craziness. Are you the next Philip Berg? Ask Phil how well he does. I think you would be surprised. If you do have a brain, why don't you try and put it to some good use.
it's a shame you'd flesh out an artice to this length without speaking to an unbiased source for a differing opinion. Berg is a bit of a nut - judging ONLY by his PAST history of lawsuits (9/11 in particular) - and was a very partisan Clinton supporter - not to mention, some of the language he uses is extreme. I'm not convinced that Berg only cares about Berg and loves all this attention...
The differing opinion, my friend, is mine. If you read closely, you can tell that I do not think that an interpleader action is the proper venue for this suit. Likewise, if you read the other materials I've written since breaking this story in late August, you'll see that I've confronted Berg about his stupid views on September 11, on his checkered past, and I even shot down the perjury claim which accompanied his initial complaint.
Are you really this stupid or is this some kind of an experiment as to how far someone with a tiny bit of knowledge can lead a group of ignorant people? It is really difficult to tell. Most of the people involved with these conspiracy theories are ignorant, poor English skills, believe anything they read...etc. You do not seem to fit that mold, as you are fairly well educated, but your thoughts and ideas are pure craziness. Are you the next Philip Berg? Ask Phil how well he does. I think you would be surprised. If you do have a brain, why don't you try and put it to some good use.
Stupid? You'll have to ask my wife!
Honestly, I'm a student of the Constitution, and it DOES say something about who can be qualifed to serve as president. I'm not here for the dumb rumors, I'm not here for the tin-foil hat craziness. I'm here because of Article II, Section 1, and I'd be saying the same things regardless of whether the candidate in question was black, white, Democrat or Republican.
On the right-hand side, you'll see an article entitled "No Lack of Constitution Here." You can see my motivation for covering this stuff.
In the meantime, I'm going to continue to cover Berg's action(s) and try to provide contrary information that you likely won't find elsewhere.
-- Jeff
Of course this isn't a proper interpleader action. Did you actually look at Berg's citations to see how he magically transformed IRR status to property valued over $500? (A duty a tenant owes to a landlord )one of Berg's example) is worth money: the income stream created by the rental. Same can't be said here.)
And Col. Hollister owes neither Obama nor Biden, personally, a duty. He owes a duty (ultimately) to the C-in-C. These are, at best "in his official capacity" suits, in which case the proper defendant is the U.S.A., and the DoJ gets to defend these. (Bonus fact: Who is the current C-in-C?)
And what about ripeness? There is no present duty owed. While declaratory relief may be obtained when legal rights and obligations are uncertain, but here the "claim" to the res is rather tenuous and speculative.
Prediction: 12(b)(6), but thanks for playing.
By the by good fellow...
can one copy and paste your post to forward into the congressional arena:
for a heads up to the few who just might stand?
please advise....
eph5:11
KEEP ON KEEPING ON JEFF! Those of us that read you everyday appreciate all you do. Hope you have had some good down time with your family. Just wanted to wish you and yours a very happy, healthy, prosperous New Year!
The gizelle in N Idaho
Burris should be seated, period.
And YES, it should be pointed out that BO and the rest of the Dems want to side-step the state constitution and invalidate his selection!
Are you really this stupid or is this some kind of an experiment as to how far someone with a tiny bit of knowledge can lead a group of ignorant people? It is really difficult to tell. Most of the people involved with these conspiracy theories are ignorant, poor English skills, believe anything they read...etc. You do not seem to fit that mold, as you are fairly well educated, but your thoughts and ideas are pure craziness. Are you the next Philip Berg? Ask Phil how well he does. I think you would be surprised. If you do have a brain, why don't you try and put it to some good use.
Well, by all means let's load everyone here onto the next Auschwitz-bound train because obviously there is no need for stupid people who contribute so little to society.
There is a thing called common sense which seems to be lacking amongst the "educated elite." They sat under propaganda tutelage for just a wee bit too long. Hence they know how to parrot and quote all the great thinkers from times past, but are unable to critically think for themselves or form an original thought.
And what about the people who voted for BO? Go check out the videos of some of those great thinkers.
For the record, I happen to have a Masters degree in Engineering. Not that this makes me any more qualified to speak out. I just happen to have been born into a family who was blessed enough to make higher education a possibility for me. A piece of paper is the only thing that separates me from anyone else.
As a matter of fact, I now view it as a curse. I home educate my children and it is only NOW that I'm getting my real education. I sit in awe of the mothers without pedigrees as I watch them soar in teaching their children. I guess they have less de-toxification to do than those who sat in another 4,6, or 8+ years. Most of the homeschooled children, in fact, outscore the competition on the system's own tests. Go figure.
Go read some John Taylor Gatto, NY Teacher of the Year who was in the system for 30 years. Go read "A Thomas Jefferson Education." It is quite humbling.
"Most of the people involved with these conspiracy theories are ignorant, poor English skills, believe anything they read...etc."
WHAT?! Where did Anonymous (who posted on December 31 at 1:37 p.m. and who hasn't the brain to figure out how to write a screen name) get the idea that there is a conspiracy? There's no conspiracy. Anonymous, Google U.,S. Constitution, and links will come up where you can READ (and believe) what is being discussed here. There are those of us who know what is in our Constitution because we either have a copy of it (I do) or know where to find it (I do).
Jeff, let those leftist liberals who worship Obama keep on posting...all they are doing is broadcasting their ignorance! They won't even be found when the truth is out. Anonymous, technically, Obama/Soetoro has already admitted he is not eligible to sit in the Oval Office. He did not file a response to Berg by December 1. DUH!
>>If Bush lost the elections in 2000 and still became president >>
If? Except he didn't lose. All recounts in Fla said he won. If you have other info, please post it...
Jeff you're a good guy and I am so glad you are on the RIGHT side of this! Hang in there and thanks for your continued updates.
Hey, anon @ 1:37, don't you have some zits to pop or sumpin'?
Anonymous said...
Of course this isn't a proper interpleader action. Did you actually look at Berg's citations to see how he magically transformed IRR status to property valued over $500? (A duty a tenant owes to a landlord )one of Berg's example) is worth money: the income stream created by the rental. Same can't be said here.)
And Col. Hollister owes neither Obama nor Biden, personally, a duty. He owes a duty (ultimately) to the C-in-C. These are, at best "in his official capacity" suits, in which case the proper defendant is the U.S.A., and the DoJ gets to defend these. (Bonus fact: Who is the current C-in-C?)
And what about ripeness? There is no present duty owed. While declaratory relief may be obtained when legal rights and obligations are uncertain, but here the "claim" to the res is rather tenuous and speculative.
Prediction: 12(b)(6), but thanks for playing.
December 31, 2008 2:04 PM
Unfortunately, with regard to this particular action, I'm pretty sure this particular anonymous fellow (or lady) is correct.
It's not that I don't think the constitutional issue is important -- of course I do. It's that, in my opinion, interpleader was not the right way to go about this.
I just hope that, given my opinion on this particular action, I was fair enough in the article.
-- Jeff
"Which if properly done" is hilarious. Always an iffy proposition for nutcases like Berg.
Jeff, thanks so much for keeping this topic alive and in the fore front. I've totally lost confidence in and respect for the Supreme Court after the way they've squirmed out of addressing this very real challenge to our Constitution. But if enough of us make the effort to prevent sweeping this issue under the rug, maybe, just maybe, patriotism will survive.
-PortiaElizabeth
Can someone provide to me the legal definition of "natural-born citizen"? Perhaps also the law citation where I could look it up?
Unfortunately, with regard to this particular action, I'm pretty sure this particular anonymous fellow (or lady) is correct.
I'm sure the person is correct too. My guess is there is nothing that would keep BO from POTUS. That's missing the point.
The point is the death of our Constitution. There has been an under-the-radar chipping away for quite some time. Now the defiance is so in-your-face and lovers of liberty are waking up. They are alarmed. They are discussing it... all over the Internet.
People don't bring forth lawsuits for no reason. They are expensive, and in this particular case, risky to one's personal safety.
This horde of lawsuits (not just from Berg, but others) would not be happening had there been full disclosure on BO's part. It is not just the birth certificate or natural born issue. He has been secretive about all his records and personal connections, not to mention the complicity of the press.
Bottom line: There is no trust in those who are supposed to represent and protect WE THE PEOPLE. THIS is the real issue. BO just happens to be the most egregious case or maybe just the straw breaking the camel's back.
Hmm, my crystal ball says Rule 11 sanctions are forthcoming. Not dischargeable in bankruptcy. Oh wait, Berg's already been there.
Lawrence Joyce will probably wish he had professional liability coverage.
If the Dems are able to consummate their fraud with Franken, I wonder if Reid would also ask his precious lords to refuse to seat him as well?
Does anyone have more information on this website?
http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/williams/081231
Here is quote from the site:
"A private investigator in Hawaii has uncovered the divorce decree for Barack Obama's father and mother, which indicates they had "one child under the age of eighteen, born in Kenya." That is the report of Ed Hale of PlainsRadio.com, an Internet radio site which has focused upon the natural born Citizen challenges to Obama's presidential eligibility."
The site says that more complete information will be available Friday. If this information is true it could blast open an huge hole in Obama's claim that he was born in Hawaii.
There seems to be a difficulty in acquiring "standing." How about a class action suit of "We, the people," using the internet to acquire"the people." Obama played the internet to acquire riches, so why not use the same technology to thwart the usurper.
"Can someone provide to me the legal definition of "natural-born citizen"? Perhaps also the law citation where I could look it up?"
http://books.google.com/books?id=NukJAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA101&lpg=PA101&dq=de+vattel+law+of+nations+%22natural+born%22&source=bl&ots=MMp_DLGJqR&sig=513UZ36GyBpM5Zto7JJil5m7gNQ&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result
If you feel de Vattel has no merit in U.S. courts, especially regarding a Constitutional statute that is directly influenced and affected by international law, send a nice letter to Justice Scalia asking him what he thinks about your argument.
People, calm down. The Supreme Court was right in what it did. But we are not done yet. Maybe he'll be sworn in. Then there will be a crime, I should think. Fraud, perhaps? Impersonating a citizen? Perjury?
Soetoro divorce decree: http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/williams/081231http://decalogosintl.org/documents/Soetoro_Divorce.pdf
Shows one child over 18 and one under 18.
"Blair House": the transitional home for newly elected first families. News reports Obama and his family will be staying in a hotel until the inauguaration. Maybe, someone in Washington, D.C. already knows that Obama and family are temporary residents of the nation's capitol.
Then again yesterday Ed Hale stated that they don't really know yet what really is on the divorce decree they are waiting to receive Friday. He just assumed that there was the info about a child, under 18 born in Kenya from something someone else inferred. And something about the PI not seeing everything on document himself ... so won't know all the facts 'til Friday Fed Ex's delivery. Ho hum!
Jeff, love the website. Could Hollisters property in the suit be the constitution itself, damaging the country if Berg is prooved correct? Obama needs to remember Pres. Reagan's quote "TRUST BUT VERIFY"! It is a ligit question, nothing personal.
Also in some discussion on Plains radio it was mentioned that there is also in formation a case or two involving a kind of class action with many military signing on - besides the Hollister case. I think such filings would have the greatest standing ... and in those military personnel, still eligible to be ordered to fight (the Commander could even change the law to commit ALL retirees to return to action in order to have total control over all military) exist the "property" - in the very bodies of the persons involved in serving an illegitimate Commander lies the property in question. If they want proof, just bring in those members who have served and been wounded or those wounded but could still be sent back to the fight - even at their own request. Also bring in the families of those who could be put in jeopardy (suffering emotional and even physical stress) under a questionable leader. Even if there are just the unanswered questions alone about eligibility, without resolution there is an affective morale lessening of those laying down their lives for the country. We see that already in those polls like the Army Times which show that a large percentage of the military is wary of this "President elect". Bodies are certainly the most important "property" to most.
It has come to my attention (arghh!) that I posted a bum URL before. Here's the correct one: http://decalogosintl.org/documents/Soetoro_Divorce.pdf
Soetoro divorce papers are in a PDF you can download from
http://decalogosintl.org/documents/Soetoro_Divorce.pdf
The papers show two children in the Soetoro marriage: one child under 18 and one child over 18. Any guess who the child over 18 is? It's highly likely it's the person calling himself Barack Obama, the person formerly known as Barry Soetoro, who continues to hide his past. Who *is* "That One," really? Do you even know? It's one thing for Chester A. Arthur to have successfully hidden that his father, William, was not a U.S. citizen when Chester was born; it's quite another for Obama to think that the millions of people around the world who wonder why Obama refuses to release his full birth certificate are going to die without knowing the truth.
Jeff:
There is another precedent of the US Supreme Court, perhaps its most important in history, Marbury v. Madison. It was a case involving the appointment of a justice of the peace, Marbury, by President John Adams before Adams left office. President Adams had signed the Commission and sent it to the Secretary of State, Madison. One of the questions addressed was whether delivery of the appointment to the Secretary of State and to Marbury by the Secretary of State was necessary for the appointment to be effective. Madison had not delivered the Commission to Marbury. In the course of that case, the Supreme Court determined that the appointment was effective at President Adam's signing the Commission and did not require actual delivery to Marbury. It was not necessary that Madison, the Secretary of State, carry out his ministerial duties for the appointment to be effective.
It is one of the most important US Supreme Court decisions in American history. The opinion was written by then Chief Justice John Marshall. The importance of the case actually had nothing to do with the effectiveness of the Presidential appointment. Its importance was the dicta Marshall intentionally placed in the opinion regarding the authority and power of the judiciary. Marbury v. Madison is the case that established the power and province of the courts to construe laws and determine whether they are constitutional or not.
Seems to me Mr. Burris has a very good case to save his senatorial appointment, based on Marbury v. Madison more than on Powell v. McCormick, which was the case holding that Congress was without authority to deny Adam Clayton Powell his seat in Congress once elected by the people to represent them. At that time, Congress was trying to deny Adam Powell the power he had gained through the Congressional seniority system (another time democrats were attempting to reduce the political power of the African American community--by denying Powell his Congressional seat and the right to chair important House of Representative committees. (Of course the people providing the information to you did not state so. Most likely out of ignorance of history, I actually believe they do not know the importance of that case.)
So, if we take this theory to the next logical step, assuming the case is thrown out. What DOES happen if Obam is sworn and takes office and then evidence of his foreign birth does come out. Impeachment seems to be the legal avenue to remove Obama from office but if the election were fraudulent, wouldn't that make Biden's Vice Presidency fraudulent too?
Are we Looking at Pelosi as the President?
I'm asking a hypothetical.
Biden would be president if Obama is disqualified. Not a reprieve from the idiocy, exactly, but what the Constitution says should be (20th Amendment).
You can't IMPEACH an Usurper because he is NOT legally given the Office because he is a Usurper and ineligible to hold the Office. He would have to be arrested for fraud, and tried and convicted of such fraud and impostering, and Usurpering and treason and whatever other crimes they might throw at him should it come to that, or he might just step down willingly, which is doubtful, but he could be held for crimes and taken out of Office that way. Look at the case against Blago, he will not step down, and they are mostly powerless to take him out of office, until a crime that he can be arrested and put into jail for is committed. Same thing goes here.....
The ticket should totally be thrown out and a NEW President should be elected, but there has to be a President sitting in Office, so Biden might be sworn (if it all comes down after Jan 20 for a decision) in as ACTING President until such time as a new election is held or a NEW President is agreed upon in House/Senate sessions to become the NEW President, and that President would select his Vice President. Biden would not be eligible to be Vice President because hew was NOT VOTED on by the populace, the ticket he was appointed to by Obama and the populace VOTED for Obama-Biden (not Biden seperately), was thrown out as Ineligible and thus Biden is Ineligible. Whether they would hold another election in April, and/or maybe President Bush would be asked to retain his seat as President until then is a question that only those in power would know the answer to at this time, if the time should be soon forthcoming. IF the Objections to Certification on Jan 8, were to prove Obama has to step down before he gets sworn in, Bush might be asked to stay in office.
Claudia,
Reno, NV
Another few questions would be, besides who will be the next or replacement President, what will happen to Obama? Since getting voted in is the only way he could qualify to see very top secret items,is he now charged with treason against the United States? What is the penalty? Life in prison? Death? That might be controversial, but also a possibility since he knew all along he wasn't qualified. I do know this is could be "nut job" thinking, but their is severe punishment for crimes against the the constitution. No one person is more important than the constitution. "TRUST BUT VERIFY" and it will be cleared up.I hope he does produce his vault copy and it is authentic for the sake of the country.
Bobby
"Can someone provide to me the legal definition of "natural-born citizen"? Perhaps also the law citation where I could look it up?"
http://books.google.com/books?id=NukJAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA101&lpg=PA101&dq=de+vattel+law+of+nations+%22natural+born%22&source=bl&ots=MMp_DLGJqR&sig=513UZ36GyBpM5Zto7JJil5m7gNQ&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result
==========================
I assume the response means that there is no US Code citation for the definition of natural-born citizen.
DEAR JEFF, CAN YOU WRITE US UP A LETTER TO OUR SENATE REPRESENTATIVES AND HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES THAT EACH OF US COULD FORWARD TO OUR DIFFERENT STATES CONGRESSIONAL LEADERS. YOU CAN PUT IN YOUR LETTER OUR REQUEST TO OUR CONGRESS LEADERS TO OBJECT TO THE OBAMA PRESIDENCY BECAUSE HE HAS NOT SHOWN A VALD VAULT BIRTH CERTIFICATE OR PROOF OF AMERICAN CITIZENSHIP AFTER 60 OR MORE DAYS IN COURT. AND THE CERTIFICATE OF BIRTH THAT OBAMA PUT ON HIS WEBSITE HAS BEEN PROVEN A PHONY BY A COMPUTER IMAGE EXPERT, WHO I THINK I READ IS GETTING DEATH THREATS. PLEASE TELL THEM IN YOUR LETTER TO TELL BARACH OBAMA TO SHOW HIS VALID BIRTH CERTIFICATE AND WHAT COUNTRY HE IS A CITIZEN OF OR RESPECTFULLY DISQUALIFY HIMSELF. I KNOW WE SHOULD HAVE ALREADY WRITTEN AND MAILED LETTERS TO OUR CONGRESS LEADERS AND MAYBE ALOT HAVE. IF ONE SENATE AND ONE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES OBJECTS TO OBAMA ON JAN.8,2009, THEN IT HAS TO BE DISCUSSED, I AM NOT SURE WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THAT. CAN YOU TELL US JEFF. ALSO, JEFF, I DON'T MIND YOU PUTTING HIGH SECURITY ON AMERICASRIGHT WEBSITE IF IT WILL KEEP ALL OF THE DECEIVED OBAMA LIARS OFF.
Natural Born Citizen means born in USA to two american citizen parents according to Donofrio. (see naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com for a detailed discussion)
There are some who maintain that any person who is born in USA is a NBC no matter what the status of the parents is.
The learned judges of SCOTUS do not want to enlighten us as to the correct definition of NBC for fear of civil war in the country if by chance Obama is not qualified.
So no body knows who a NBC is as of now.
"Jeff
Are you really this stupid or is this some kind of an experiment as to how far someone with a tiny bit of knowledge can lead a group of ignorant people? It is really difficult to tell. Most of the people involved with these conspiracy theories are ignorant, poor English skills, believe anything they read...etc. You do not seem to fit that mold, as you are fairly well educated, but your thoughts and ideas are pure craziness. Are you the next Philip Berg? Ask Phil how well he does. I think you would be surprised. If you do have a brain, why don't you try and put it to"
Here we go, all of us "God fearing, gun toting, rednecks clinging to our religion, guns, and four wheel drives". wish I would have learned more in school. You know about little things, like reading, writing. it amazes me if you don't agree or have a different view you are an uneducated moron. Jeff keep up the good work. I have to go adjust my tin-foil hat.....
Wow, 17 more days and then what will you all do?
Yes, this interpleader action is ridiculous and will likely be the one to merit Rule 11 sanctions (Berg has been subject to them before in 2005-no surprise there).
No, the new plaintiff still would not have standing even if the legal theories Berg relies on weren't completely inappropriate.
You will not overcome standing. If you did this would then fall under political question doctrine and be dismissed.
The cases filed in state court will now likely be dismissed as moot with the courts giving a "shout out" to political question doctrine for good measure just like the Third Circuit Court of Appeals did in December.
Bottom line, the courts are NEVER going to touch these cases.
Find another way to do this or move on to a new issue.
Kris on 1JAN09 wrote:
"Also in some discussion on Plains radio it was mentioned that there is also in formation a case or two involving a kind of class action with many military signing on - besides the Hollister case. I think such filings would have the greatest standing ... and in those military personnel, still eligible to be ordered to fight (the Commander could even change the law to commit ALL retirees to return to action in order to have total control over all military) exist the "property" - in the ..."
I was in the Army over 20 years ago and it was not really a point of discussion, so I admit I may be dead wrong.
This is what niggles me: I betchya if any court sees an argument along these lines, they will claim that military personnel are under the auspices of the UCMJ and therefore have no standing. I can not remember whether the military have their normal
Constitutional rights suspended or not... but that is what started banging around in the back of my head when I read Kris' post.
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