Wednesday, November 19, 2008

U.S. Supreme Court Decisions on Berg, Donofrio Cases Could Be Imminent

FEC Waives Right to Respond to Berg Petition, Court to Address Donofrio Action in Conference

According to the Docket No. 08-570 at the United States Supreme Court, the Federal Election Commission yesterday filed a waiver of its right to respond to attorney Philip Berg's Petition for Writ of Certiorari, filed on October 31 and currently pending before the Court.

Contrary to Internet rumor that Justice Souter had ordered Barack Obama to provide the vault copy of his birth certificate, the Court merely set December 1, 2008 as the date by which the respondents--Obama, the Democratic National Committee and Federal Election Commission--were to respond to Berg's petition if they chose to do so at all. Yesterday's filing, which appeared on the docket this afternoon, shows that the respondents have waived their right to respond.

It also suggests that a decision on Berg's petition could be imminent.

There are a number of reasons why the respondents here would choose not to respond. First, because the Court only grants between 70 and 120 of the 8,000 or so petitions it receives every year, perhaps they just liked their odds of Berg's petition getting denied. Second, because they have made arguments as to Berg's lack of standing several times at the district court level and beyond, perhaps they felt as though any arguments had already been made and were available on the record. Or, perhaps the waiver shows that the FEC and other respondents do not take seriously the allegations put forth by Berg, and did not wish to legitimize the claims with a response.

Another thing which is not completely clear is whether the FEC is filing for itself or on behalf of all respondents. On the docket, the FEC's attorney is noted as being the attorney for all respondents; on yesterday's docket entry, it states that the waiver was filed by "respondents Federal Election Commission, et al." As it were, the FEC's attorney, Gregory Garre, is with the Solicitor General's office, and does not represent Obama or the DNC. While attorneys acting on behalf of a group of defendants or respondents is not necessarily rare, the difference here is the involvement of the Solicitor General's office, a federal office.

This distinction is not lost on Philip Berg.

"If it were just the FEC filing the waiver, I must say that I'm surprised," Berg said. "I'm surprised because I think they should take the position that the Supreme Court should grant standing to us. I think they have a responsibility not only to Phil Berg, but to all citizens of this country, to put forth a sense of balance which otherwise doesn't seem to exist."

"However, if this was filed by the FEC on behalf of the DNC and Barack Obama too, it reeks of collusion," he said, noting that the attorney from the Solicitor General's office should be representing federal respondents and not the DNC or Obama.

Indeed, neither the DNC nor the president-elect are, for now, federal respondents, though Obama's status as Illinois senator--a position from which he resigned this past weekend--could place him under the representational umbrella of the Justice Department.

While outright collusion could be a stretch, if indeed the FEC's attorney is acting on behalf of all respondents and not just the FEC, there certainly is the appearance of coordination. Regardless of the veracity of the allegations put forth against Barack Obama, for the Department of Justice and the Solicitor General of the United States to be facilitating a defense which is calculated to shield from disclosure, rather than compel disclosure, of manifestly relevant and critical information bearing directly upon not just the qualifications but the very constitutional eligibility of Barack Obama -- the word "unorthodox" comes to mind. As does "shameful." And yet, in these post-election times, especially considering the FEC's decision not to audit Obama's $600 million take during his campaign (at least $63 million of which was from undisclosed sources), this appears to be the new standard in post-election times.

Either way, Berg says that he is hopeful that the Court will "do the right thing," and ensure that "the American public is provided with the opportunity to know that the person leading the United States of America is eligible, under our Constitution, to do so."

As for New Jersey firebrand and attorney Leo Donofrio, his application for an emergency stay was denied by Justice Souter, Donofrio was able to refile and resubmit it to the Justice of his choosing, and properly did so. Today, the docket for his action shows that after being put before Justice Clarence Thomas, the application will be discussed by the Court in a December 5, 2008 conference.

Normally, during their term, the Supreme Court Justices conference on Wednesday (typically, but not always) and review the various petitions and applications before them, deciding which of the many such proceedings should be heard by the Court. I suspect that we could soon see a similar entry on the docket for Berg's case as well.

Now, this does not mean that the Court has decided to hear either of these matters and, in fact, is fairly typical when it comes to the process. Still, for those hoping to have these cases heard on their merits, for those who feel these issues are more about the United States Constitution than Barack Obama, this is a step in the right direction.

Certainly, the proceedings moving along normally is positive with regard to publicity for Donofrio and Berg as well. Just yesterday, news of Alan Keyes' suit in California reached the Drudge Report, so the questions surrounding this aspect of Obama's candidacy are seemingly beginning to see the light of day.



For a full time-line of materials related to coverage of Berg v. Obama and more at America's Right, click HERE.

124 comments:

Ladyhawke112 November 19, 2008 4:28 PM  

Jeff,

Would you consider it significant that the conference is scheduled on a Friday?

I had heard that Drudge only had the link to the Augusta news site for a very short while. I never saw it.

bluewater,  November 19, 2008 4:39 PM  

Look at this application for Barack's candidacy.
http://ellievel.wordpress.com/
He clearly misinterpreted what FULL NAME means, and he goofed on what office he was running for. Hillary and McCain both put PRESIDENT while Barack put PRESIDENTIAL. And this guy was voted to run things? PRAY HARD!

Bill Groves,  November 19, 2008 4:43 PM  

Hallelujah! (Opps, maybe I should be a little less demonstrative) but I am quite happy this may come to pass.

I myself wrote the FEC over a week ago requesting an explanation of the lack of action in this regard. I received no response and have found this to be the typical way most government entities decide to handle citizens questions and/or comments. Thanks for all of your hard work Jeff, keeping us informed of the latest events!

sirjaxx November 19, 2008 5:06 PM  

Jeff, as usual you are right on top of these issues and we all appreciate your efforts.

But if I can put in my two cents, the Berg and Keyes Cases are Doomed to fail, since all they ask is that Barack Obama release his Birth Certificate, of which I am assured the Governor of Hawaii will certainly do, and do so as to appear that she has Bent to the will of the people, and the Birth Certificate that will be presented will have the Weight of the State of Hawaii behind it, thus making Both cases go away!

Now as to the Leo Donofrio Case: www.blogtext.org/naturalborncitizen/

in my humble opinion is citing facts espoused by Both Barack Obama and his FactCheck.org web sites that confess to BHO's British citizenship at the time of his birth! Which DISQUALIFIES BHO to Hold the Office of the President of the United States!

I think that Justice Thomas by even deciding to refer the matter to the Court shows that he must believe that he has the "Rule of Four" on his side, and that this case has Merit! Otherwise Justice Thomas would have Denied his Motion and that would have been that!!!

Anonymous,  November 19, 2008 5:32 PM  

Well, this is interesting, to say the least. This is the only site I frequent anymore for news concerning this situation because Jeff lays it out in black and white and doesn't hype the story.

I firmly believe the American people deserve to see the evidence that POTUS is constitutionally qualified.

All the man has to do---if he is legit, is produce the document. That's it. Why is that so difficult for him?

Thanks Jeff.

Anonymous,  November 19, 2008 5:51 PM  

Did produce it, the real question is why it is SOOOO hard for some of you to let it GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

laptoplizard,  November 19, 2008 5:54 PM  

Thanks again Jeff, Folks talk to your friends WRITE! Have them WRITE!

The Honorable Associate Justice
Clarence Thomas
United States Supreme Court
One First St. N. E.
Washington DC 20543

Put docket # on Envelope 08-A407

Ask him UPHOLD our Consitution with Full Disclosure as the only Consitutionaly viable answer.

WRITE!

And no Jeff you cant...I have a cane. LOL

Koyaan November 19, 2008 6:10 PM  

sirjaxx wrote:

in my humble opinion is citing facts espoused by Both Barack Obama and his FactCheck.org web sites that confess to BHO's British citizenship at the time of his birth! Which DISQUALIFIES BHO to Hold the Office of the President of the United States!

Not by any law or legal precedent that I'm aware of.

Can you point to any?

k

Anonymous,  November 19, 2008 6:12 PM  

I am express mailing my 9 page letter to each of the supreme court justices tommorrow. I think pressure is what forces the supreme court to act now a days. We need to barage the supreme court with about a million letters from upset american citizens who want to see our constitution honored and upheld. In your letter please remind every single supreme court justice that they swore UNDER OATH that they would uphold the united states constitution. PLEASE EMAIL AND BLOG AND WHATEVER TO GET AMERICAINS TO SWAMP THE SUPREME COURT WITH LETTERS. ALSO, I THINK IF WE COULD GET ALOT OF QUIET AND ORDERLY PROTESTS ORGANIZED AND MARCH ON THE STEPS OF THE SUPREME COURT ON DIFFERENT DAYS, WE MIGHT EVEN GET A NEWS STATION TO REPORT OUR CONCERNS AND PUT OUR SIGNS ON THE NEWS. IF THE SUPREME COURT KNOWS THAT ALL OF AMERICA KNOWS THAT OBAMA HAS NEVER SHOWN HIS REAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE OR PROOF OF CITIZENSHIP, IF THEY DENY OBAMA'S CASE THEN I THINK THEY KNOW THAT THEY WILL LOSE STANDING IN THE MINDS OF MILLIONS OF AMERICANS. PLEASE CONTACT EACH OTHER,GREAT THINGS TAKE GREAT SACRIFICES. PLEASE TRY TO ORGANIZE GROUPS TO HOLD UP SIGNS ON THE SUPREME COURT STEPS. OUR CONSTITUTION MUST BE HONORED. dOTTIE sEPELYAK

Anonymous,  November 19, 2008 6:14 PM  

JOIN THE RESISTANCE to Obama's policies at http://www.grassfire.org/111/petition.asp?PID=18751165. This is a legitimate, conservative, grassroots organization founded by Steve Elliott.

Anonymous,  November 19, 2008 6:19 PM  

Can someone direct me to the law or written guiding principle which states that a person cannot be president if he is born with dual citizenship? I know about the natural born clause, but I have read nothing about dual citizenship. If it is in the law somewhere, then Obama was not very smart admitting he had dual citizenship. If this is indeed an automatic disqualifier, then it is a done deal, but somehow, I bet it is "open to interpretation".

Anonymous,  November 19, 2008 6:25 PM  

Jeff,


Why do you choose to disparage the NJ case?

By challenging the NJ Sec of State to perform her constitutionally proscribed duty and forcing the recognition of "natural born citizen" as fundamental tenant isn't this the best we could ask for?

Anonymous,  November 19, 2008 6:28 PM  

I'm too depressed to hope that any of these cases will prevail.

I fear that Obama is letting these litigants chase the rabbit down the hole. I think he'd rather people pursue this than demand an accounting of the foreign funds he used to purchase the White House. He'd rather people claim he's ineligible than make an outcry about his actions in Kenya in 06.

I think his refusal to respond to Berg and others is calculated to draw attention away from voter fraud, foreign campaign donations, Ondinga, etc.

Anonymous,  November 19, 2008 6:39 PM  

Jeff, you probably can't control advertisers on the site, but the ad for an Obama coin on the page made me groan.

Anonymous,  November 19, 2008 7:29 PM  

Why the Donofrio case will fail:

We already know the Berg and Keyes cases will fail, but Donofrio seems to be everyone's last hope - for whatever reason. Here's what will happen.

Dual citizenship has never been challenged for a basis of "Natural Born" status. If the SCOTUS did actually hear the case, it would come down to defining who, exactly, and under exactly what circumstances, is awarded "Natural Born" status.

There are really only two items here:

A.) You're born on US soil to a US Citizen(s).

B.) You're entitled to US citizenship at birth.

Obama fits both these categories. The hogwash that being born with dual-citizenship doesn't fly. He's lived the vast majority of his life in the US - most importantly his entire adult life. A child does not have the ability to choose his allegiance and therefore does not comprehend "split loyalties". Obama never swore allegiance to any other nation and allowed his dual-citizenship status to expire.

Sorry guys, guess you'll have to just worry about those pesky issues now...

Ted Park,  November 19, 2008 7:31 PM  

JEFF:

Dec 5 seems like a LONG time away. I thought a request for emergency stay needed to be addressed faster than that?

SIRJAXX:

In your first post above, you totally lost me on what you think the HI Gov will do. Getting all the records of the DOH and the hospitals is a good thing, right? I don't understand why you don't think so. Can you try again?

MIDDLE CLASS GUY,  November 19, 2008 7:31 PM  

This is good news. At least there is hope. What happens if the court ruled in favor of Donofrio that both Obama and McCain were not eligible due to not being “Natural Born”? I assume they could also rule that one of them is qualified and that the other is not.

Can Justice Souter dismiss Berg’s case on his own or does he have to consult the other justices first?

I do not understand why the apparent falsification of Obama’s draft registration is not getting more attention. It would seem that a forensics team could easily ascertain the validity of the registration. All of the long drawn out court battles would not be necessary. What I do not know is how an investigation of that type would be initiated. What would get the authorities involved? It seems on Debbie Schlussel’s website the story has kind of died out. It is only accessible in the archived stories section.

If I understand it correctly, if he failed to register and the registration card was faked in 2008 then he would not be eligible to be POTUS or hold any position in the executive branch of the federal government.

Anonymous,  November 19, 2008 7:34 PM  

Any news on Keyes or Martin's lawsuits?

candid November 19, 2008 7:42 PM  

WND site has scrubbed all its srticles concerning obama's birth certificate.

Anonymous,  November 19, 2008 7:44 PM  

Drudge had the NBC article up for a while yesterday, then WND followed. WND still has the NBC article there:

http://www.nbcaugusta.com/news/elections/presheadlines/34587804.html

Anonymous,  November 19, 2008 7:54 PM  

If you look at the Case Distribution Schedule - October Term '08, it appears that all the conferences that will occur in the next couple of months are on Friday. December 5th is the date that would apply to cases that were distributed by November 19th.

Since the Berg case won't be distributed until after December 1, (the first business day after the expiration of the 30 day period for filing briefs in opposition to the petition for a Writ) the first conference it could be scheduled for, according to the Distribution Schedule, is January 9, 2009.

Anonymous,  November 19, 2008 8:02 PM  

I agree! Why isn't anyone looking into the falsified draft registration? But then, hey, seems that anything that might effect B.O. negatively gets overlooked.

Anonymous,  November 19, 2008 8:03 PM  

The Supreme Court has never defined "natural born citizen." The 14th Amendment grants citizenship to anyone born here - but not the natural born status. The writings of the founders indicates their clear intention that someone with dual citizenship (save for themselves) would be ineligible. They wanted the POTUS to have a sort of super-citizenship. That's what makes Leo's case so interesting.

Imagine, a couple on vacation from China in the U.S. has a child. That child is a citizen by the 14th. They go back to China. The kid comes here at 20 years of age - say to go to school. He stays. At 35, he decides to run for POTUS. I think, and hope, our Constitution, taken literally, prevents that from happening.

Anonymous,  November 19, 2008 8:30 PM  

About the time our original thirteen states adopted their
new?constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish
history professor at?the? University ?of? Edinburgh ?, had
this to say about the fall of the? Athenian ? Republic ?some
2,000 years earlier:
‘A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply
cannot exist as a?permanent form of government.’
‘A democracy will continue to exist up until the time
that voters?discover they can vote themselves generous gifts
from the public?treasury.’
‘From that moment on, the majority always vote for
the candidates who?promise the most benefits from the public
treasury, with the result that?every democracy will finally
collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which?is always
followed by a dictatorship.’
‘The average age of the world’s greatest
civilizations from the beginning?of?history, has been about
200 years’


posted with more by
sandipuma 11.19.08 at 6:51 pm @
http://pumapac.org/2008/11/19/mccain-wins-missouri/#comments

Anonymous,  November 19, 2008 8:47 PM  

I am less than impressed by all of this 'expert' speculaton about which case is better, what goes away if the real BC is produced, etc.

You are missing the real point here. For ANYONE to be qualified to be my POTUS, he/she must do ALL of these things: prove birth in the states, prove citizens status, open, honest, worthy of being hired as a public servant.

NO EXCEPTIONS.

With all of this done, I will accept him/her as qualified. Anything less that qualified and completely transparent, and I WILL NOT recognize that person as my president. obama or otherwise.

"If injustice becomes law, revolution is the response."

Janet,  November 19, 2008 8:51 PM  

MIDDLECLASSGUY wrote: I do not understand why the apparent falsification of Obama’s draft registration is not getting more attention.

This should make you smile. Today I wrote to each of the 15 electors of my state (NJ). I included the link to the video and the website so they can see for themselves re Obama's draft registration.

Then I told them it is their Constitutional duty to validate a copy of Obama's original birth certificate before they vote on Dec. 15th.

All these people have email addresses which I easily found online. As Palin would say to all of you reading this, "Get writin'". (And you would respond "You betcha!")

Ted Park,  November 19, 2008 8:54 PM  

MIDDLE CLASS GUY

You have hit the central problem. Nothing sticks on Obama. We can't seem to get traction on anything. In the past the MSM has been the best avenue to bring attention to this sort of thing. Brian Ross on ABC, for example, has a crack investigative team and does a thorough job. He has turned his whole team loose before on items of less significance and less odor than any of these several Obama things. This time: Silence, nothing, nada, zip.

Anonymous,  November 19, 2008 9:10 PM  

I have hope in Donofrio's case. The more that I study on it, the more it makes sense, but there's more cases out. There's one in TX. This is a great place to check on them:

http://www.therightsideoflife.com/?p=1013#comment-315

Koyaan November 19, 2008 9:29 PM  

MIDDLE CLASS GUY wrote:

If I understand it correctly, if he failed to register and the registration card was faked in 2008 then he would not be eligible to be POTUS or hold any position in the executive branch of the federal government.

You don't understand correctly.

What you're referring to only applies to employees. Not elected officials such as POTUS.

The ONLY qualifications for President are the three qualifications given in Article II of the Constitution.

k

Anonymous,  November 19, 2008 9:38 PM  

I think you'll find that the selective service card story proves nothing and asks more questions about the digital image itself than anything else.

At the end of the day you just can't trust a photoshopped image.

Anonymous,  November 19, 2008 10:29 PM  

Someone said they couldn't find the link to the NBC Augusta article on Alan Keyes' lawsuit, so here it is:

www.nbcaugusta.com/news/elections/presheadlines/34587804.html

Anonymous,  November 19, 2008 10:47 PM  

The Augusta news article about the Keyes case is back up: http://www.nbcaugusta.com/news/elections/presheadlines/34587804.html

The station manager stated (in an email response to a request to know why it had disappeared) that it was taken down 'temporarily' so they could double check sources then put back up......hmm....
kb

Anonymous,  November 20, 2008 12:48 AM  

Folks,

I am an attorney. I've studied each of these cases and considered the legal hurdles in each case. I believe Leo Donofrio's has the best chance of success. That doesn't mean the others cannot or won't succeed. It just means I believe Donofrio has the best all-round case. He presents a cogent argument based on a plain-reading of our Constitution. In Donofrio's case, Obama's place of birth is totally irrelevant. We can accept Obama's stated bio as truth. He has admitted he had dual-citizenship at birth, which is the central fact.

I recommend everyone study Leo Donofrio's website carefully. You can download and listen to a radio interview in which he explains his case in simple terms laymen can understand.

http://www.blogtext.org/naturalborncitizen/

Anonymous,  November 20, 2008 1:33 AM  

"Dual citizenship has never been challenged for a basis of "Natural Born" status. If the SCOTUS did actually hear the case, it would come down to defining who, exactly, and under exactly what circumstances, is awarded 'Natural Born' status."

Well, Anonymous "Why the Donofrio case will fail" LIBERAL OBAMA LOVER, you got THAT part right, but the rest of your logic fails miserably. You also said,

"There are really only two items here:
A.) You're born on US soil to a US Citizen(s).
B.) You're entitled to US citizenship at birth.

"Obama fits both these categories. The hogwash that being born with dual-citizenship doesn't fly. He's lived the vast majority of his life in the US - most importantly his entire adult life. A child does not have the ability to choose his allegiance and therefore does not comprehend 'split loyalties'. Obama never swore allegiance to any other nation and allowed his dual-citizenship status to expire."

How arrogant of you to assume you even BEGIN to understand the intent of the Founding Fathers when they carefully worded the Constitution! Are you next-in-line for Supreme Court appointment?

Being born on U.S. soil DID NOT GUARANTEE U.S. CITIZENSHIP until the 14th Amendment was ratified on July 9, 1868. Even then, the Amendment writers never intended for citizenship to be granted to offspring of foreigners and aliens, as evidenced in their writings (look it up, dummy). So your 'item B', though true at the time of Obama's birth in 1961, WAS NOT ALWAYS TRUE 200+ years ago.

As for your 'item A', which category you claim "Obama fits":

1) How do you KNOW Obama was born on U.S. soil? Have YOU seen his vault birth certificate? If it does indeed say he was born in America, have YOU PERSONALLY VERIFIED the location of his birth?
2) How do you KNOW Obama's parents were U.S. citizens--especially since HE HIMSELF says his father was Kenyan! Need I say more???

YOUR "hogwash doesn't fly", not Donofrio's.

Who are YOU to decide whether dual citizenship by birthright was or wasn't an important issue to the Constitution's writers? How do YOU KNOW Obama has no 'split loyalty' to another country just because he never swore allegiance to any other nation and allowed his dual-citizenship status to expire (assuming all that to be true)? CAN YOU READ HIS MIND??? After all, not only does he have many relatives in Kenya, but he has visited there often.

You said, "He's lived the vast majority of his life in the US - most importantly his entire adult life."

May I remind you that the U.K. has thwarted several terror plots by the U.K.-born offspring of Muslim immigrants there. These criminals didn't just spend 'the vast majority' of their lives in the U.K.--THEY WERE BORN THERE--and their evil intentions came as a shock to their parents, their neighbors, to almost everyone who knew them.

What does this have to do with Obama? If people BORN AND RAISED in a country can turn against that country because of extreme Islamic influences, why should we doubt it could happen here--especially if the child is raised by a foreign parent in a foreign country? (Can you say 'split loyalties'?)

Barack Hussein Obama:
1) was born to a Kenyan Muslim father;
2) was named after a Kenyan Muslim;
3) was adopted by an Indonesian Muslim stepfather;
4) was classified as an Indonesian Muslim on his school enrollment form;
5) trained as a child in Islam;
6) campaigned for his radical extremist Kenyan Muslim 'cousin';
7) let slip, "...my Muslin faith" in an interview;
8) promotes abortion, racism, and homosexuality, though he claims his religion is Christianity, which condemns all three.

If the Founding Fathers were writing the Constitution today, I believe they'd place more restrictions on Presidential eligibility, to safeguard this country from threats they couldn't have imagined in their worst nightmares.

Anonymous,  November 20, 2008 2:25 AM  

We might be able to put off a One World Government for a little while longer by keeping Obama out of office but I'm afraid Bush has sold us out already. All the talk about the Anti Christ and one world currency, one world government, etc, well, it's here!

http://usasurvival.org/ck110308.html

john mirse,  November 20, 2008 3:26 AM  

I wish those "Anonymous" posters would post some kind of name, even if it is a fake name, as long as the person uses the same fake name all the time.

So many posters use Anonymous that I get confused as to who is who.

I get so confused that I say forget it and skip over most of the Anonymous messages.

So, if anyone is reading this message and normally posts as Anonymous, could you use a name, even if it is a fake name? Thanks.

Anonymous,  November 20, 2008 3:38 AM  

It is still American to think that cheaters are losers, and the rules of the game are right there... natural born citizen... If proof that a document has been faked is good enough to get Dan Rather to retire, and his producer outright fired, then it seems that Obama's fake certificate is not going to be enough to get him past the supreme court and the more serious court of public opinion.
Roses,WA

john mirse,  November 20, 2008 4:11 AM  

Imagine that we get lucky and one of the Obama cases makes it before a judge.

Let's also imagine that one of the first questions the judge asks Obama's lawyers is the following:

"Has Obama ever been a British citizen?"

1. I wonder how Obama's lawyers will answer.

2. I wonder how the judge will respond to Obama's lawyers if the lawyers answer "Yes."

bluewater,  November 20, 2008 5:57 AM  

Jeff,
You've been quoted on WorldNetDaily - congrats!

(CAPT-DAX) November 20, 2008 8:24 AM  

Martin's lawsuit .. update.

http://contrariancommentary.blogspot.com/


http://www.contrariancommentary.com/community/

Anonymous,  November 20, 2008 9:10 AM  

No develpoment on Keyes,Martin's under "advisement"

Sandy,  November 20, 2008 9:26 AM  

I.m not sure, but I believe the argument concerning dual citizenship is supported by the Constitution and surrounding documentation as to the framers state of thought concerning the qualifications clause. The fact that they grandfathered themselves in as being qualified to run for president (they were born here, yet also subject to British rule as Obama was), shows that the framers wanted nobody after that generation to have split loyalites. They wanted nobody born subjected to British rule to be qualified. I believe this is the argument
Sandy

Kahleeka November 20, 2008 9:44 AM  

I think it is important for everyone to call each of your representatives in Congress at 202-224-3121 and ask them to hold immediate congressional
hearings to investigate and ensure the basic constitutional requirements for the office of president have been met.

I personally just spoke to each secretary and explained how I felt about BHO not producing his vault birth certificate - just a bit of history as to why I was calling. They seemed very receptive.

I suggest we all find out our Reps at the following link and give them a call!

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/home/

Anonymous,  November 20, 2008 10:20 AM  

All right...my eyes are beginning to cross...but it's still better than the cult-of-personality swirling and glazing over...nonetheless...this is getting monumentally irritating...not intimidating...just irritating...
So, which is it?

He was born in Kenya.
He was born in Hawaii.
He has dual citizenship in Kenya and the US.

Then....
He has dual citizenship in the US and UK...bcuz...his father lived in Indonesia (or was it Kenya...oh, yes, it's Kenya b/c Indonesia and Kenya are entirely different countries...right?...yes, I'm kidding...but it gets so, so...just too many countries involved here, ya know?... and at the time the UK had control over that region....(sigh...ugh)...Then...
His father isn't actually Obama, SR...it's Frank Davis...thus, he's a US citizen.
WHAT?




My gosh...this is getting beyond ridiculous.
Look, just show us the vault copy and get on with it already. And, by a vault copy, I mean, the real thing...not doctored or distorted...not fake or covered up...and let's hear that tape of grandma in Kenya saying she was there when he was born, just for good measure).
I can only imagine in this current state of "smoke and mirrors"...and land of "...just take our word for it, sit down, shut-up, and enjoy the ride"...anyway, the Gov. of Hawaii comes out for a press conference, flashes something in our faces that looks all kinds of "official" ...and we'll be expected to accept it and move on....
UNLESS, we keep talking and pressuring the "powers-that-be" that the American people will not shut-up and go away, and want answers...the right answers...true answers...and then, and only then...will this go away...no matter the outcome.
If it's true that he is a citizen, then great...let's move on.
If he's not, then we all have a constitutional crisis on our hands, and it has to be handled correctly and by the right people...if there is such a thing anymore...

But, on a another note, or way of looking at it...if he is not a citizen and their camp is trying to deliberately stall, frustrate, and irritate, simply to encourage ppl to throw hands in the air and say "forget it", they have not factored in the fact that Americans are a very resilient, resolved, and persistant bunch...the majority anyway...and I have noticed that this issue has only gotten stronger, louder, and has not gone away in a hushed and intimidated way. Americans don't intimidate...the majority anyway...and if we see something that we sense is "just not right" and our Constitution is possibly in jeopardy, well then...we resolve ourselves to get the answer!
So, with that said, I think...humbly so...that this isn't going away because there are too many Americans making their voices heard, and their expectations known, and no matter who may try to doop, conspire, intimidate, or dictate for that matter, as a matter of heritage and history...we don't succumb to those things...rather, we grit our teeth and get down to business...and that business is finding out the truth and making it known.
If it turns out to be a fraudulent matter, we'll find out and we'll resolve to set this country back on the right course. If it turns out that it isn't, then we'll resolve to move on and still work to set this country back on the right course.
Keep screaming...it's working!

Anonymous,  November 20, 2008 10:26 AM  

To Anonymous, posted at 1:33 am:

The 0bama camp has an army of internet watchers who will try to discount any statement that is anti-0bama and will try to inject a counter-statement. I believe you are replying to one of them. The 0bama camp obviously needs to inject someone of a little higher intelligence on this site.

Your reply, by the way, was right on.

Anonymous,  November 20, 2008 10:41 AM  

Ask yourself these questions, people:

Why did there need to be a 14th Amendment?

Why this summer did the US Senate pass an empty, dishonest and utterly deceptive resolution falsely declaring John McCain and others by inference (like Obama) to be "natural born" citizens?

The answer, in part, is the Framers intent is real and controlling.

Remember the Framers defined the THEMSELVES as NOT natural born. The Framers wrote a grandfather clause to Article II's requirement so THEY would still be eligible to be POTUS.

The Framers chose these words for all posterity:

"No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution shall be eligible to the Office of President;"

The Framers were all of British or foreign parentage at birth. There were no United States citizens until the Constitution was adopted.

There were no "natural born Citizens" until "Citizens of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of the Constitution" coupled and birthed these children on American soil. These children were the first "natural born Citizens."

The Framers SPECIFICALLY sought to PREVENT a child born under the British Crown from ascending to the office of POTUS.

Though McCain and Colero are not natural born, Obama in particular was born to a British Citizen and is therefore as British as American.

The location where he was born is irrelevant to this point. Nationality at birth is the determining factor.

The irony: Obama qualifications at birth as a British Citizen perfectly inform the central meaning and intent of not natural born.

Further, Obama's pursuit of the Office of POTUS represents the very profile of IMPOSTOR the Framers sought and did expressly act to PREVENT from ever holding the Office of POTUS.

These are not "technicalities" but the very essence of our Constitution as written by its Framers.

I think there may be a argument that Howard Dean as chair of the DNC has committed Treason if indeed Obama is found to be not natural born and therefore an impostor. Had McCain won, then the RNC chair would be at similarly at risk.

These are not mere technicalities. This is the real deal. Donofrio has brought a correctly framed case before the court.

Whatever SCOTUS decides is fine with me. This is where it now belongs. This is what they are for; why they sit. And they may well be deciding one of the great Constitutional questions of their lifetime.

All I pray is they will hear it fully and decide as they will.

If a law is broken, it doesn't matter if a lot of people want to break it. The law is the law.

Anonymous,  November 20, 2008 12:12 PM  

The Donofrio case having been distributed for Conference of all nine justices is historically relevant. Im surprised this isn't breaking news all over the country.

For any emergency stay application to be referred to the entire court is a rarity, certainly not the norm. Mr. Donofrio has not filed a full petition for writ of cert. So this case is being taken very seriously on an emergency basis and the date of Dec 5th is relevant as it is 10 days before the Electoral College is set to meet.


His emergency stay was denied by Justice Souter. It's VERY rare that a stay application, which has been previously denied, would then be entertained by way of renewed application. Extraordinary.

In order for Justice Thomas to refer it to the whole court, he had to believe four Justices would vote to hear the case in full. If he doesn't believe four Justices would want the case, he has a responsibility to deny the stay application even if he thought it should be granted.

It may be that Justice Thomas referred it to all nine Justices and who then set it down for conference. How do we know it was Justice Thomas on his own and not other Justices who made the decision to distribute it for conference.

Is there any way to find out that information, Jeff?

Lil November 20, 2008 12:42 PM  

Anonymous said...
"Did produce it, the real question is why it is SOOOO hard for some of you to let it GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Obama produced a Certification of Birth that was issued upon request on the date of Jun 6, 2007 which turned out to be a forgery. There are claims that he altered his step-sister's COB and presented it as his own, problem is, she was born in Indonesia yet she also managed to get a Hawaii certificate.

Obama must show the long form version of the COLB, he clearly doesn't show it because there is information on it that he doesn't want people to know.

Thanks for the info, Jeff.

Koyaan November 20, 2008 12:55 PM  

Anonymous wrote:

It is still American to think that cheaters are losers, and the rules of the game are right there... natural born citizen... If proof that a document has been faked is good enough to get Dan Rather to retire, and his producer outright fired, then it seems that Obama's fake certificate is not going to be enough to get him past the supreme court and the more serious court of public opinion.

Except for the fact that there is no proof whatsoever that Obama's Certification of Live Birth is fake.

However there is proof that "Techdude," the person whose claims Berg relies on with regard to Obama's Certification of Live Birth, was a fraud.

k

ahrcanum November 20, 2008 1:04 PM  

I think I see where you were going with the FEC responding alone to the writ but they also did so in Berg v Obama et al. The judge agreed that they do not have constitutional powers to enforce qualification of candidates. Maybe Obama and the DNC have different representation. That One and the DNC used Joe Sandler before and they still have until Dec 1,08 to respond.

Koyaan November 20, 2008 1:16 PM  

Anonymous wrote:

He presents a cogent argument based on a plain-reading of our Constitution. In Donofrio's case, Obama's place of birth is totally irrelevant. We can accept Obama's stated bio as truth. He has admitted he had dual-citizenship at birth, which is the central fact.

I might consider it a cogent argument if it wasn't for the fact that none of the other citizenships Obama is supposed to have had or has were due to any volitional act on his part.

k

Ladyhawke112 November 20, 2008 1:48 PM  

Leo said on the radio show last night that another case "similar" to his would be filed in the SCOTUS on Friday.

Anyone know what state it will come from. I am just curious.

Karen November 20, 2008 2:08 PM  

Here is what the US Army advises personnel with respect to the issue of dual citizenship and foreign preference with respect to: http://www.smdc.army.mil/ADR/forpref/forprefT.htm

This is from the "Adjudicative Desk Reference", http://www.smdc.army.mil/ADR/

I leave this for better minds than mine to determine whether this has any effect on Pres.-Elect Obama's suitability for office.

Anonymous,  November 20, 2008 3:05 PM  

Jeff,
I came across this website (http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2008/11/exclusive_did_n.html)stating that Sen. Obama may not have registered for the draft back in 1980. It also states the he or someone trying to cover for him, may have registered for him back in Sept. of 2008 and tried to make it look like it was done in 1980. So now along with his Birth Certificate issues, he might could be looking at doing 5 years in the big house and a $250,000 fine.

Anonymous,  November 20, 2008 3:22 PM  

I find it hilarious that you lot aren't actually reading Jeff's posts.

If you did, you wouldn't sound so cocky.

patriotsista,  November 20, 2008 3:38 PM  

I have been sending out links and articles to post to European blogs.They do not want to see USA Republicanism to die because they understand the tyranny of socialism.There was a French Friends of McCain website and I sent them the Schlussel story plus the SCOTUS info to clue them in.Get the word out across the pond their press just might start reporting on this...remember, OBAMBI is a citizen of the world!

Koyaan November 20, 2008 3:59 PM  

Anonymous wrote:

I came across this website (http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2008/11/exclusive_did_n.html)stating that Sen. Obama may not have registered for the draft back in 1980. It also states the he or someone trying to cover for him, may have registered for him back in Sept. of 2008 and tried to make it look like it was done in 1980.

That's a bunch of crap.

Back on August 12th, Bob Owens over at Pajamas Media wrote about Obama's Selective Service registration and that he had received an EMail from a Daniel Amon at Selective Service confirming that Obama registered for Selective Service back in 1980:

Mr. Owens,

Barack Hussein Obama registered at a post office in Hawaii. The effective registration date was September 4, 1980.

His registration number is 61-1125539-1.

Daniel Amon
Public Affairs Specialist


After reading this article, I telephoned Selective Service at their Arlington, VA headquarters and spoke directly to Daniel Amon who confirmed the information and that he had provided it to Bob Owens.

k

Koyaan November 20, 2008 4:13 PM  

Lil wrote:

Obama produced a Certification of Birth that was issued upon request on the date of Jun 6, 2007 which turned out to be a forgery.

No. What turned out was that the person making the claim of forgery ("Techdude") was a fraud.

There are claims that he altered his step-sister's COB and presented it as his own, problem is, she was born in Indonesia yet she also managed to get a Hawaii certificate.

No. She didn't manage to get a Hawaii certificate. Again, the person making the claim was a fraud.

And the fact that Phil Berg is still disseminating those false claims even after Techdude was exposed as a fraud means that Berg himself is engaging in fraud.

k

PatGund@gmail.com November 20, 2008 5:10 PM  

"Obama produced a Certification of Birth that was issued upon request on the date of Jun 6, 2007 which turned out to be a forgery. There are claims that he altered his step-sister's COB and presented it as his own, problem is, she was born in Indonesia yet she also managed to get a Hawaii certificate. "

Actually, there's no proof of any such thing. The only two people who claim forgery are two unknown internet "experts" who have never backed up any of the expertise they claim. Namely "Polarik" and "TechDude".

"TechDude" was the only one who claimed to have found Maya Soetoro's name in the COLB posted on-line, and he was eventually discredited on No Quarter, TexasDarlin, and even Free Republic, ("Atlas Shrugs" still make the claim, as does Berg.

Real computer forgery experts have examined the COLBs posted and found none of the evidence "Polarik" or "TechDude" claim. Heck, even "WorldNetDaily" said there was no evidence of forgery.

Given a choice between some nameless unknown's opinion, and the opinion of someone who has put their name and professional career on the line, I'll go with the named person.

Anonymous,  November 20, 2008 5:18 PM  

In response to the person who wrote the comment reproduced below - where do you get your information? I am admitted to the bar of the Supreme Court and regularly handle death penalty emergency stay requests. Emergency stays are almost always referred to the full court, especially when they are renewed after being denied by an individual justice. I think you've been misinformed.

Original Post:

For any emergency stay application to be referred to the entire court is a rarity, certainly not the norm. Mr. Donofrio has not filed a full petition for writ of cert. So this case is being taken very seriously on an emergency basis and the date of Dec 5th is relevant as it is 10 days before the Electoral College is set to meet.


His emergency stay was denied by Justice Souter. It's VERY rare that a stay application, which has been previously denied, would then be entertained by way of renewed application. Extraordinary.

In order for Justice Thomas to refer it to the whole court, he had to believe four Justices would vote to hear the case in full. If he doesn't believe four Justices would want the case, he has a responsibility to deny the stay application even if he thought it should be granted.

Jeff Schreiber November 20, 2008 5:33 PM  

The responding lawyer is right. You have been misinformed. Refiling with the Justice of your choice following a denied application for stay is actually in the rules.

Koyaan November 20, 2008 6:42 PM  

Anonymous wrote:

The Framers were all of British or foreign parentage at birth. There were no United States citizens until the Constitution was adopted.

That's incorrect.

There have been United States citizens since the adoption of the Declaration of Independence on July 4th, 1776.

Unless you're prepared to argue that everyone in the United States in 1776 was considered an alien, each of whom needed to be nationalized in order to become a citizen of the United States.

There were no "natural born Citizens" until "Citizens of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of the Constitution" coupled and birthed these children on American soil. These children were the first "natural born Citizens."

The Naturalization Law of 1790 makes it rather clear that a "natural born citizen" was one who was born within the limits of the United States without regard to the citizenship of their parents, or who were born outside the limits of the United States to parents who were citizens of the United States.

Therefore the first "natural born citizens" would be those who were born within the limits of the United States without regard to the citizenship of their parents or outside the limits of the United States to parents who were citizens of the United States at any time after July 4th, 1776.

...Obama in particular was born to a British Citizen and is therefore as British as American.

That's absolutely incorrect.

The location where he was born is irrelevant to this point.

Again, that's absolutely incorrect.

Nationality at birth is the determining factor.

That's correct.

And his US citizenship was by birth. His British citizenship was not. It was by descent.

To be a British citizen by birth, he would have had to be born in Britain or one of its colonies. Since he wasn't, he was only a British citizen by descent, and not by birth.

The British Nationality Act of 1948 clearly distinguishes citizenship by birth and by descent.

k

Ted Park,  November 20, 2008 6:53 PM  

Can somebody tell me how delaying until December 5 is responsive to a request for emergency stay? Shouldn't the order for a stay be issued right away and then a conference can be conducted to further get the sense of the whole court? And then either lift the stay or proceed to the next level? I'm not a lawyer, but 2 or 3 weeks seems like a long long time.

Ted Park,  November 20, 2008 6:58 PM  

Can we please stop arguing about the authenticity of the birth information Obama has provided? Perhaps nobody has proved them a forgery. But neither has anybody proved them to be free of tampering. And there have also been noted several suspicous features. What we are asking is to bypass these partial documents, get the full and complete documents, and have them verified. Seems like a reasonable and important request. Let's just see how that comes out. I just want to know the truth - whatever it may be. As long as Obama keeps stalling and fighting the release of this orignial information, it is reasonable to assume that HE doesn't think it matches what was released already.

Koyaan November 20, 2008 8:20 PM  

Ted Park wrote:

Can we please stop arguing about the authenticity of the birth information Obama has provided? Perhaps nobody has proved them a forgery. But neither has anybody proved them to be free of tampering.

You can't prove it to be free of tampering.

All you can say is that there is no credible evidence that it has been tampered with.

k

Koyaan November 20, 2008 8:26 PM  

Oh, by the way, "Internet Powerhouse" Andy Martin's case in Hawaii was denied on Tuesday.

Currently there's no mention of it on his website.

k

dcomus,  November 20, 2008 8:54 PM  

Very funny:

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=81347

Except also very sad in revealing what BO is getting away with.

Anonymous,  November 20, 2008 9:29 PM  

The Declaration of Independence was the breaking of the 13 colonies from the rule of Great Britain and their agreement to stand against the crown.

The government of the United States of America did not form until the Constitution was written and ratified well thereafter.

The matter of Donofrio is a Constitutional question.

Upon ratification of the Constitution, the present matter of "natural born" under Article II began in fact and in law. Children born prior may have been considered citizens of the colonies and not the crown, but until the Constitution was ratified, there was no national government to be a natural born citizen of.

That government was formed by and an began with the ratification of the Constitution of the United States of America.

It will be fascinating to see where this question goes in Donofrio v. Wells.

My prayers are with the Justices.

Anonymous,  November 20, 2008 9:46 PM  

When Koyann shows up, all intelligent discourse is thwarted by an obvious Obama troll. Probably even paid.

Koyann should be demanding, as well as all citizens, that the next President prove himself eligible. It is Obama's job to do that. I would think the diehard supporters would want proof even more than the rest of us. They are disingenuous by refusing to acknowledge that there is a problem. Mr. Obama (he is no longer a Senator and he is not yet President elect) has not made public one important piece of paper that supports evidence of his life. Everything is sealed.

Now there are rumors that at Harvard Law he write about how to get around the Presidential requirements of Article II. Of course, all of that is sealed.

Koyann, this is the first and last time I shall address you directly - but you should be screaming for evidence louder than anyone else. If not, your guy will be forever tainted.

Rest assured, this is not going away.

john mirse,  November 20, 2008 10:52 PM  

Koyaan, or someone:

Could you please refresh my memory by explaining to me again how I am supposed to know that Obama
was born in the United States and is a natural born citizen of the United States, if Obama won't release his long form Hawaii birth certificate---the one with the names of the doctor and the birth hospital on it---and Obama won't release his Hawaii birth hospital record of Aug. 4, 1961, the date Obama was supposedly born in Hawaii some 47 years ago.

Thanks.

Koyaan November 20, 2008 10:59 PM  

Anonymous wrote:

The Declaration of Independence was the breaking of the 13 colonies from the rule of Great Britain and their agreement to stand against the crown.

The government of the United States of America did not form until the Constitution was written and ratified well thereafter.


Tell me, where you born and raised in the United States?

I certainly hope not because if you were, your gross ignorance of the founding of this country is an embarrassment to all.

Allow me to refer you to the last paragraph of our Declaration of Independence, adopted in 1776:

We, therefore, the representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress, assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the name, and by the authority of the good people of these colonies, solemnly publish and declared, that these united colonies are, and of right ought to be free and independent states;

So tell me, which United States of America do you figure they were referring to here? And how could we have representatives assembled in General Congress without their being any form of government?

Next let me direct your attention to the preamble of the Articles of Confederation, ratified in 1778, just two years after the adoption of the Declaration of Independence.

Oh, wait. Since you claim that the government of the United States didn't form until the Constitution was written an ratified, you obviously haven't any idea what the Articles of Confederation were.

The Articles of Confederation established the first formal framework of our government. They were, essentially, our first "constitution."

That's right. The Constitution is in fact a sequel, not an original. It came about because the framework established by the Articles of Confederation didn't work out quite as well as was hoped.

You know how in the preamble of the Constitution they talk about "a more perfect union"? That's what they're talking about. The inadequacy of the Articles of Confederation.

So eight years later, in 1786, delegates of several states got together to discuss amendments to the Articles of Confederation.

Long story short, this ultimately led to the convention where it was decided that instead of amending the Articles of Confederation, they should just be tossed out and rewritten. The end result was our current Constitution.

Anyway, back to the preamble of the Articles of Confederation:

Whereas the delegates of the United States of America in Congress assembled, did, on the fifteenth day of November in the year of our Lord seventeen seventy-seven, and in the second year of the Independence of America, agree to Certain Articles of Confederation and perpetual union between the states...

This was nine years before the Constitution was ratified. So again, which United States of America do you figure they were referring to here?

Upon ratification of the Constitution, the present matter of "natural born" under Article II began in fact and in law. Children born prior may have been considered citizens of the colonies and not the crown, but until the Constitution was ratified, there was no national government to be a natural born citizen of.

That government was formed by and an began with the ratification of the Constitution of the United States of America.


Your ignorance is profound. Please do something about it and save yourself further embarrassment.

k

john mirse,  November 20, 2008 11:14 PM  

Koyaan:

Obama's selective service registration:

If it is discovered later down the road that Obama and his camp produced a fake selective service registration form, is such an action on President Obama's part an
impeachable offense?

1. Have you had a chance to look at and examine Obama's selective service registration form as posted on the internet?

2. I don't know about you, but to me, the signature on the registration form and Obama's signature today do not even come close to being the same.

3. Also, there are other items on the form that I have questions about.

(NOTE: Anonymous posters: Could you please try to use a name,even if it is a fake name? Thanks.)

Koyaan November 20, 2008 11:14 PM  

dcomus wrote:

Very funny:

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=81347


Funny? It's completely asinine.

Next time you move to another state and need a new driver's license, try this: Refuse to produce the birth certificate or any other personal information required by the department of motor vehicles. Just explain that a facsimile of the required document is posted on your website and give the clerk the domain name.

Tell them: "I'm following the example of President-elect Barack Obama. If he didn't need to produce a birth certificate to establish his eligibility to be president of the United States, why would you require me to produce one to get a lousy driver's license?"


There is absolutely no analogy here whatsoever.

When I go to the state Department of Motor Vehicles to apply for a driver's license, on the other side of the counter there is a government official, charged by state laws and regulations to require that I provide to the department the appropriate identification for obtaining a driver's license.

To date, no government official has requested that Obama provide any sort of documentation in order to prove his qualifications for the office of President under Article II of the Constitution.

And should one do so, I'm quite sure that Obama would not refer them to any website.

Again, this is completely asinine.

k

Jon From Boston,  November 21, 2008 12:12 AM  

The grandmother thing is what amazes me. Here is a relative of BHO stating what she believes is the truth, but no one listens.
What if a relative of a candidate said they fondly remembered the first Klan meeting their son/daughter went to? If it were a GOP candidate the MSM would be all over them, never mind what the scum like Sharpton might do.
BHO simply turns his back on a family member. He's a weasel. I don't trust him to look for the best interests of the country because from what I can tell, he has no problem alienating anyone whom helps feed his ego when their usefullness has run out.
Take the "Joe The Plumber" situation. With the recent suspension of that woman in OH, Joe's case for a suit revolving around his right to privacy being trampled on becomes quite strong. With all this talk about rights that all depend on your sexuality or your religion or you view on when life begins, Joe the plumber had a right that every single person in this country has or should have. Personally, I think the GOP put a bug in Joe's ear to hold off raising hell until January. Make BHO and his administration start their term in office with a bang by making them go after the people whe helped dig up dirt on someone they considered a "threat" to the messiah's sacred image.

Anonymous,  November 21, 2008 12:35 AM  

We need a national prayer chain started to pray for the Supreme Court's decisions and wisdom on Dec. 5th and beyond.

If everyone logged onto 4 or 5 church websites and went to the "prayer request" section. Point them to the website with all of the basics of the lawsuits www.americamustknow.com, ask for prayer from their warriors, and that they please forward on to the Church Associations. Blanket the nation in prayer on Dec. 5th!!

"Again I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them." (Matthew 18:19)

We can't forget God and prayer in all of this!

Koyaan November 21, 2008 1:32 AM  

Joe from Boston wrote:

The grandmother thing is what amazes me. Here is a relative of BHO stating what she believes is the truth, but no one listens.

It amazes me too.

Because in the over four months that I've been involved in all of this, I've never been able to trace this claim back to any reliable source.

Berg claims to have a recording of a telephone call with Sarah Obama where she supposedly claims he was born in Kenya.

He has affidavits from a complete whack job street preacher named Ron McRae and some confederate of his supposedly in Kenya, but oddly there is no affidavit from Sarah Obama.

And if they went through all the trouble to set up this phone call, why did they settle for just a phone call? Why not shoot some video?

k

Anonymous,  November 21, 2008 1:38 AM  

Cool site Jeff. Lots of good info here. But, you have a bunch of loons residing here. :)

Koyaan November 21, 2008 2:10 AM  

john mirse wrote:

If it is discovered later down the road that Obama and his camp produced a fake selective service registration form, is such an action on President Obama's part an
impeachable offense?


According to the source of this story, the copy of the registration form was obtained via a FOIA request. Which means that the copy of the registration form was provided by the Selective Service System. Not Obama.

Also, as I stated previously, back in August, the Selective Service System had already confirmed that Obama had registered for Selective Service back in 1980.

So what need would there be to produce a fake registration form?

1. Have you had a chance to look at and examine Obama's selective service registration form as posted on the internet?

You mean the Selective Service registration form posted on the Internet that's claimed to be Obama's?

If so, then yes.

2. I don't know about you, but to me, the signature on the registration form and Obama's signature today do not even come close to being the same.

I don't know about you, but I don't know that it is in fact Obama's registration card.

3. Also, there are other items on the form that I have questions about.

And I have questions about the person claiming it to be Obama's registration card.

For example:

Early this year, when I first started questioning whether Obama registered I was told:

Sir: There may be an error in his file or many other reasons why his registration cannot be confirmed on-line.


In order to confirm a registration online, you need to provide the Social Security number of the registrant.

So of this person was complaining to Selective Service that he wasn't able to confirm Obama's registration online, he's implying that he has Obama's Social Security number.

So what's he doing with Obama's Social Security number?

Further:

Then, they suddenly found the record on September 9, 2008 (prior to my October 13, 2008 request), and stated that his record was filed on September 4, 1980.

And yet, in August the Selective Service System had already confirmed Obama's registration to Bob Owens at Pajamas Media, and as I said previously, I followed up with a phone call to Mr. Amon and confirmed it as well.

k

Koyaan November 21, 2008 2:16 AM  

john mirse wrote:

Could you please refresh my memory by explaining to me again how I am supposed to know that Obama
was born in the United States and is a natural born citizen of the United States, if Obama won't release his long form Hawaii birth certificate---the one with the names of the doctor and the birth hospital on it---and Obama won't release his Hawaii birth hospital record of Aug. 4, 1961, the date Obama was supposedly born in Hawaii some 47 years ago.


Because the information on the Certification of Live Birth is taken directly from the long form Certificate of Live Birth.

And as per Hawaiian law, is to be "considered for all purposes the same as the original."

So if the place of birth on the Certification of Live Birth says Hawaii, then that's the place of birth on the long form Certificate of Live Birth.

k

Jeff Schreiber November 21, 2008 2:44 AM  

Awwwwww, but they're NICE loons!

Actually, you'd be surprised at the amount of insightful e-mail I receive.

While I myself may be an inherent skeptic, I have no problem with people advancing their theories here -- I just ask that they actually read what I write before putting words in my mouth, that's all.

Take care.

-- Jeff

Koyaan November 21, 2008 2:49 AM  

Anonymous wrote:

Koyann should be demanding, as well as all citizens, that the next President prove himself eligible.

He has provided, inasmuch as he can provide to the general public, a Certification of Live Birth which states that he was born in Honolulu, Hawaii on August 4th, 1961.

There hasn't been a shred of credible evidence that the document is fake or has been altered in any way.

Further, there is corroborating evidence in the form of birth announcements published in two Hawaiian newspapers days after his birth. And it has been confirmed by at least one of these newspapers that their birth announcement information came from the Hawaii Department of Health, and not from parents or relatives.

Bottom line, I haven't seen any credible evidence that Obama was born anyplace other than Honolulu, Hawaii and therefore have no compelling reason to believe otherwise.

So I don't know just what "proof" it is that I should be demanding.

I would think the diehard supporters would want proof even more than the rest of us. They are disingenuous by refusing to acknowledge that there is a problem.

I'm not a diehard supporter of anyone, least of all Obama (I'm libertarian).

I simply haven't seen any particular problem. I have however seen a considerable number of false and unsubstantiated claims. But false and unsubstantiated claims don't constitute a problem in my opinion.

Mr. Obama (he is no longer a Senator and he is not yet President elect) has not made public one important piece of paper that supports evidence of his life.

He has indeed made public one important piece of paper that supports evidence of his life.

Now there are rumors that at Harvard Law he write about how to get around the Presidential requirements of Article II.

So what?

There was a rumor that he was sworn into the Senate on the Koran instead of the Bible.

It was bullshit of course, but that didn't stop people from believing it without question and spreading it around.

k

Anonymous,  November 21, 2008 3:21 AM  

About Selective Service cards, and I thought any man have to carry his SS card. - Jay

john mirse,  November 21, 2008 7:13 AM  

Koyaan:

Concerning my doubts about the "Obama" signature on the "Obama" selective service registration card one sees on the internet, you wrote:

"I don't know about you, but I don't know that it is in fact Obama's registration card."

1. Are you saying that it is possible that the registration card is a fake?

2. If the card is a fake and it is NOT Obama's registration card, then that would obviously mean that the "Barack H. Hussein" signature is a fake, too.

john mirse,  November 21, 2008 7:33 AM  

Koyaan:

In response to my question as to how I was supposed to know if Obama was a citizen or not, you wrote:


"Because the information on the Certification of Live Birth is taken directly from the long form Certificate of Live Birth.

And as per Hawaiian law, is to be "considered for all purposes the same as the original.

So if the place of birth on the Certification of Live Birth says Hawaii, then that's the place of birth on the long form Certificate of Live Birth."

*******
What if I was a person who knew very little about computers and who did not know the first thing about how to check
and examine Obama's "birth certificate" on various web sites?

1. You do realize that there are still a lot of people out there who don't know anything about computers and who could care even less about how to use one.

2. So, my question is this: If I know nothing about computers, how am I to find out if Obama is indeed an American citizen who is eligible to be President of the United States?

patriotsista,  November 21, 2008 9:05 AM  

I find it unsettling when the White House Press secretary says to a WND reporter inquiring on Obama's eligibility.."that its pretty well covered" or something to this effect.It makes me feel that both parties are actually ONE PARTY.They are just giving us a show.

nana3,  November 21, 2008 10:34 AM  

Regarding the Selective Service registration...if he signed it in July, 1980, wasn't he a college student at Occidental in LA during
the summer of 1980? When did he change his name from Barry Sotero to Obama? Did he have to complete forms to officially change his name? Under what name did he enroll as a student at Occidental?. It was my understanding that he used the name Barry Sotero until late in the year 1980. Can anyone answer these questions? I haven't read all the info regarding this matter so maybe it has been explained.

Koyaan November 21, 2008 11:20 AM  

john mirse wrote:

2. So, my question is this: If I know nothing about computers, how am I to find out if Obama is indeed an American citizen who is eligible to be President of the United States?

The same way that you would with regard to John McCain I suppose.

k

Koyaan November 21, 2008 11:36 AM  

john mirse wrote:

"I don't know about you, but I don't know that it is in fact Obama's registration card."

1. Are you saying that it is possible that the registration card is a fake?


Sure. It's possible.

I mean, nobody really knows anything about this so-called "retired federal agent."

2. If the card is a fake and it is NOT Obama's registration card, then that would obviously mean that the "Barack H. Hussein" signature is a fake, too.

What "Barack H. Hussein" signature are you talking about? The signature on the form that I saw says "Barack H. Obama."

k

Koyaan November 21, 2008 11:44 AM  

About Selective Service cards, and I thought any man have to carry his SS card.

What's shown is the registration form. You don't carry the registration form. The registration form is sent to the Selective Service System.

k

Koyaan November 21, 2008 12:09 PM  

nana3 wrote:

Regarding the Selective Service registration...if he signed it in July, 1980, wasn't he a college student at Occidental in LA during
the summer of 1980?


Yes. But Occidental doesn't have a summer session. They only have fall and spring sessions, the fall session beginning late in August.

k

Anonymous,  November 21, 2008 1:33 PM  

Donofrio v. Wells before SCOTUS may indeed be more singularly ominous than first thought, as the response of Justice Thomas may be more than ordinary, as Donofrio describes. Perhaps someone here can answer the questions he leaves open:

"Published: Nov.20.2008 @ 9:20 pm | Last edited: Nov.20.2008 @ 9:31 pm

US SUPREME COURT TAKES EXTRAORDINARY EXPEDITED ACTION IN FAST TRACKING NJ CITIZEN SUIT CHALLENGING '08 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.

I am awaiting clarification from the Clerk's office at the United States Supreme Court as to whether my stay application has now been accepted in lieu of a more formal full petition for certiorari (and/or mandamus or prohibition). Such a transformation is a rare and significant emergency procedure. It was used in Bush v. Gore, a case I have relied on in my brief.

We do know the case has certainly been "DISTRIBUTED for Conference", a process usually reserved for full petitions of certiorari. Stays are usually dealt with in a different manner. As to a stay application, a single Justice may; a) deny the stay; b) grant the stay; c) refer the stay to the full Court.

My stay application was originally denied by Justice Souter. So, under Rule 22.4, I renewed it to Justice Thomas who did not deny it. The sparse reporting on this issue I have seen today has failed to stress how unique such a situation is to Supreme Court practice. The vast majority of stay applications are denied. And once denied, a renewed application is truly a desperate measure the success of which heralds one of the rarest birds in Supreme Court history.

The relief I requested, a stay of the national election and a finding that candidates Obama, McCain and Calero be held ineligible to hold the office of President, has also not been granted at this time. So that leaves option "c)": Justice Thomas has referred the case to the full court. That much is clear from looking at the docket.

What isn't clear is whether the full court has already examined the referral and taken the extraordinary action of accepting the stay application as if it were a full petition for writ of certiorari which was done in Bush v. Gore, 531 U.S. 98 at 98 (2000):

"The court ordered all manual recounts to begin at once. Governor Bush and Richard Cheney, Republican Candidates for the Presidency and Vice Presidency, filed an emergency application for a stay of this mandate. On December 9, we granted the application, treated the application as a petition for a writ of certiorari, and granted certiorari." (Emphasis added.)

It's not clear that SCOTUS precedent would allow a stay application to be "DISTRIBUTED for Conference" without it first having been transformed by the court into a full petition. I don't know if such a transformation could be sanctioned by Justice Thomas by himself.

Again, I'm waiting for an official disposition notice from the Clerk's office. Regardless, either the full court has set this for Conference, or Justice Thomas has done it on his own. Either way, it signifies an affirmative action inside the US Supreme Court testifying to the serious issues raised by this law suit."

This will only get more interesting as it weaves its way toward its final disposition. It appears Donofrio v. Wells has arrived. I think we are looking at a historic birthing of new law which ever way SCOTUS rules.

Anonymous,  November 21, 2008 2:26 PM  

So, according to what appears may be a paid Obama troll (and internet savant of high station) our nation presently exists and operates under the Articles of Confederation.

Well, Koyann, there are many ignorant people who need to be rescued from this profound wrong you have so masterfully pointed out -- the pervasive incorrect notion that accepts our nation today and our sitting government of the United States of America was founded by and currently operates under the Constitution of the United States. Perhaps that will also help sweep away that awful Electoral College thingy so democracy and social and economic justice can be restored to America like it had always been since the beginning before it was illegally changed by Karl Rove's secret executive order from Bushitler McChimpy.

Thanks to Koyann we shall be reeducated and see how stupid the Framers were. Why did they ever bother ratifying that silly United States Constitution? Nothing changed or otherwise began by its adoption, and look at the injustice of how it needlessly obscured the very constructions which Obama might someday need to be rescued from the prospective impostorship and fraud of his claims of presidential eligibility as set forth in Article II of that bogus document which founded no national government whatsoever.

not eligible, not proven, not replying,  November 21, 2008 3:38 PM  

Koyaan, you wrote, "To date, no government official has requested that Obama provide any sort of documentation in order to prove his qualifications for the office of President under Article II of the Constitution."

Exactly, thanks for finally understanding the main issue... he was not vetted...
I hope that they don't dock your pay for that!
Tell them to be gentle, or to ignore it... they are good at ignoring things.

Thanks for clarification that he was not proven eligible

john mirse,  November 21, 2008 3:42 PM  

koyaan:

1. "Barack H. Hussein". Come on Koyaan, you know it was a typing mistake, and you know I meant to type "Barack H. Obama."
Stop playing games.

2. You say that the Obama selective service registration card
displayed on the web could be a fake.

3. Let's assume for the sake of discussion that the Obama selective service registration card on the web is a "fake".

4. So assuming that the Obama card on the web is a fake, do you have any explanation why the forger's "Barack H. Obama" signature is so different from the way that Obama signs his name today?

5. I would think that a forger who signed Obama's name to the card would try to copy Obama's signature
as close as possible to the way Obama writes it today.

6. I am no writing analysis expert, but, in my opinion, the Obama signature on the registration card and the Obama signature found elsewhere today are not even close when they are compared to each other.

john mirse,  November 21, 2008 3:57 PM  

koyaan:

Obama'a selective service card: You wondered about who was "retired federal agent" who displayed Obama's selective service card on the web.

I found this information about the "retired federal agent that you and others might find helpful:

"11/14/08: Retired Federal Agent Source Reveals Himself:

"The recently retired federal agent has requested that I disclose his identity so that there is no question as to the source of the information.

"His name is Stephen Coffman. He retired last year from the position of the Resident Agent in Charge of Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) Galveston, Texas office. He has over 32 years of government service and has held a Secret or higher security clearance for the majority of those years.

"He filed the FOIA with Selective Service and has the original letter and the attachments. He first notified the Selective Service of his findings and they ignored the questions.

He can be reached via email at retirediceagent@sbcglobal.net."

MIDDLE CLASS GUY,  November 21, 2008 4:37 PM  

There is an interesting story with an audio link on The Right Side Of Life website. Some radio show called to the Kenyan embassy and talked the ambassador and in the midst of the conversation the ambassador startd talking about the monumnet that is in the works at the site of Obama's birthplace in Kenya which he says is already a tourist attraction.

Koyaan November 21, 2008 5:05 PM  

anonymous wrote:

So, according to what appears may be a paid Obama troll (and internet savant of high station) our nation presently exists and operates under the Articles of Confederation.

First, I've been discussing politics online for 25 years. Long before there was the Internet.

Second, I have no idea where you get this notion that I claimed we're still operating under the Articles of Confederation.

Well, Koyann, there are many ignorant people who need to be rescued from this profound wrong you have so masterfully pointed out -- the pervasive incorrect notion that accepts our nation today and our sitting government of the United States of America was founded by and currently operates under the Constitution of the United States.

That's funny. I distinctly recall our nation's bicentennial being celebrated in 1976.

Somebody sure screwed the pooch on that one.

k

Koyaan November 21, 2008 5:31 PM  

john mirse wrote:

1. "Barack H. Hussein". Come on Koyaan, you know it was a typing mistake, and you know I meant to type "Barack H. Obama."
Stop playing games.


Not playing any games. "Barack H. Hussein" seemed rather more than a simple typing mistake and I wasn't sure if you were referring to something else.

So I asked for a clarification.

I would prefer to ask for a clarification when in doubt than to waste time talking at cross purposes.

2. You say that the Obama selective service registration card
displayed on the web could be a fake.


Yes.

3. Let's assume for the sake of discussion that the Obama selective service registration card on the web is a "fake".

Ok.

4. So assuming that the Obama card on the web is a fake, do you have any explanation why the forger's "Barack H. Obama" signature is so different from the way that Obama signs his name today?

Nope.

But then I wasn't arguing that it was fake. I only presented the possibility that it could be fake.

5. I would think that a forger who signed Obama's name to the card would try to copy Obama's signature as close as possible to the way Obama writes it today.

Why would you think that? It makes absolutely no sense at all.

Why would any competent forger try to copy Obama's signature as close as possible to the way he writes it today in order to place it on a document that was supposedly signed nearly 30 years ago and when Obama was still a teenager?

6. I am no writing analysis expert, but, in my opinion, the Obama signature on the registration card and the Obama signature found elsewhere today are not even close when they are compared to each other.

Which in my opinion would simply indicate that the forger had a bit more sense than you do, and wouldn't try passing off a modern signature on such an old document.

k

Koyaan November 21, 2008 5:33 PM  

john mirse wrote:

"He filed the FOIA with Selective Service and has the original letter and the attachments. He first notified the Selective Service of his findings and they ignored the questions.

He can be reached via email at retirediceagent@sbcglobal.net."


Ok. So let's assume the guy's legit.

It still means, as I had said previously, that the copy of the form came from Selective Service, and not Obama.

k

Anonymous,  November 21, 2008 7:12 PM  

A Kenyan ambassador said on radio the Obama's birthplace IN KENYA is already a pilgrimage spot.

http://donedems.com/2008/11/21/have-you-heard-this-kenyan-ambassador-says-obamas-birthplace-in-kenya-is-an-attractionalready-well-known-wrif-radio-detroit/

Anonymous,  November 21, 2008 7:18 PM  

Here is how BO will get out of the Donofrio case if Donofrio is right.

He will produce an afidavid from his white grandmother, stating that Obama Sr. was not really BO's biological father. Instead she will claim it was someone else (a U.S. citizen of course) because his mother slept around.

Then they will put his Grandmother under oath about this (oh, wait!! she's dead, how convenient).

Anonymous,  November 21, 2008 7:59 PM  

In regards to the Leo Donofrio case. What would happen if someone was born to an unwed mother, and no father is listed on the birth certificate?

Are they natural born???

Michael November 21, 2008 10:45 PM  

It’s no big deal that the FEC waived the right to respond.

It's unclear why the Solicitor General would use "et al", but I would think the USDoJ could only represent the FEC, not Obama and the DNC.

If the SG is filing for Obama and the DNC, then I agree entirely, that reeks of collusion !

The DNC and Obama filed together for the motion to dismiss Civil Action No. 2:08-cv-04083-RBS v Berg in PA.

Part of the DNC and Obama's legal team was at that time Joe Sandler of the Washington law firm Sandler, Reiff, and Young.
http://www.sandlerreiff.com
/

I would imagine that Joe is still on the case.

Is it just me, or does it seem odd that Obama and the DNC would retain Joe Sandler, an attorney for CAIR, a.k.a. the Council on American-Islamic Relations, the leftist “civil liberties” group that specializes in stifling free speech, for defense in the Berg case ???

CAIR is an organization with terrorist ties, and is an unindicted co-conspirator in the Holyland Foundation Hamas Funding trial.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-08-26-texastrial_N.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/18/AR2007091801114_pf.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Land_Foundation_for_Relief_and_Development




Anyhoo, I’ve posted this before but for those who may have missed this, the Federal Elections Commission, FEC, is only responsible for administration and enforcement of campaign finance regulations, not vetting political candidates. Agreed, while the FEC has failed to investigate fraudulent campaign funding allegations, it is not the responsibility of the FEC to qualify political candidates.
http://www.fec.gov/


It is the responsibility of Dianne Feinstein, Chair of the US Senate Committee on Rules and Administration and her committee members:
http://rules.senate.gov/

Purpose and Jurisdiction
(Taken from the Standing Rules of the Senate: Rule 25.1.n)

(1) Committee on Rules and Administration, to which committee shall be referred all proposed legislation, messages, petitions, memorials, and other matters relating to the following subjects:

(A) Administration of the Senate Office Buildings and the Senate wing of the Capitol, including the assignment of office space.

(B) Congressional organization relative to rules and procedures, and Senate rules and regulations, including floor and gallery rules.

(C) Corrupt practices.

(D) Credentials and qualifications of Members of the Senate, contested elections, and acceptance of incompatible offices.

(E) Federal elections generally, including the election of the President, Vice President, and Members of the Congress………
[url]http://rules.senate.gov/purpose/[/url]


I haven’t heard a peep from Feinstein during this whole election cycle until the other day; it was a sound bite calling for unity and moving the country in a “new” direction.

Perhaps we should be asking the Senators who are members of this senate committee if they fulfilled their obligation as members of this committee ?
http://rules.senate.gov/members/


I’m going to start e-mailing these Senators and ask them if their committee indeed verified the qualifications of the presidential candidates per Article II: be at least 37 years of age, has lived in the USA for 14 years and is a NATURAL BORN citizen.

Jeff, thank you so much for your unselfish public service !

Michael

Tired of being called racist,  November 22, 2008 12:04 AM  

To Mr. Donofrio,

I have a question that I hope you're uniquely able to answer.

Would the specific wording of the Article II qualification words make Obama eligible?

'at the time of the adoption of this Constitution'.

In another words, when each state adopts the Constitution in joining United States, each and every citizen of the state becomes eligible. That was the Founding Fathers way of grandfathering themselves to eligibility.

The fact that Hawaii became a US state AFTER Obama was born, and was a citizen of Hawaii, based on the wording of the Article II, would make him eligible just as G. Washington, J. Adams, etc... were eligible.

Would this particular interpretation of these words be correct??? What are your thoughts???

I'm not trying to throw cold water on your case.

Just asking for clarification as to your opinion.

Tired of being called racist,  November 22, 2008 12:50 AM  

To Koyaan,

Man, you have lots of time and the ability to defend the indefensible.

You sound just like the people that were defending Clinton when he said, 'I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Monica Lewinsky.'

President said it, therefore it must be true, you guys kept on insisting to us.

I can just imagine how depressed you guys were when the stain on the blue dress showed up.

Your reality turned out to be a Fantasy.

Why is it that you sound just like that again?

FIRST - COLB is NOT proof.
COLB is just a registration AFTER the birth. NOT proof of where the birth took place. In fact, I understand that even Hawaii, the issuer, won't take a COLB in lieu of an actual Birth Certificate.

SECOND - 'Natural-Born Citizenship' is not attained by being born in US.

Any and all amendments confer citizenship, however, they do NOT confer 'Natural-Born Citizenship'.

You can be 'Born Citizen', be a 'Naturalized Citizen', 'Native Citizen', etc... However, still not be a 'Natural-Born Citizen' as required by Article II.

Actually, I happen to have a different view with Mr. Donofrio's suit. It is quite possible that Obama can be eligible even though he's not a 'Natural-Born Citizen', due to the fact that Hawaii became a state AFTER Obama was born. Therefore, when Hawaii adopted the Constitution, ALL of it's citizens would qualify, just like G. Washington, etc...

Based on the wording of the Article II, it says 'at the time of the adoption of this Constitution'. If it said 'at the time of the ORIGINAL adoption of this Constitution', yeah, that would be favorable to Mr. Donofrio's argument.

However, based on the words used, since different states in the Union adopted the Constitution at different times in US history, it could be argued that ALL citizens of any particular state are eligible when the state adopts the Constitution.

THIRD - The fact that Obama went to Pakistan in 1981. THAT's where, I believe, Obama lost eligibility.

US Citizens not being able to go to Pakistan at that time, yet, he went there. The fact that this happened AFTER he became an adult and any & all actions that he partook consciously as an adult.

THIS is the problem. Anything his mother did in dragging him around from Hawaii, Kenya, Indonesia, all could be argued that as a child he should NOT be penalized for the action of his parents.

By going to Pakistan, he took action as an adult. Whatever he did to gain entry to Pakistan and return to US, THAT's on HIM in his adult capacity.

This event that Obama, himself, stated in order to embellish his foreign knowledge, is THE problem.

Koyaan November 22, 2008 11:25 AM  

Tired of being called racist wrote:

FIRST - COLB is NOT proof.
COLB is just a registration AFTER the birth. NOT proof of where the birth took place.


That's absolutely incorrect.

You really need to stop swallowing the bullshit that's posted on the web and passed off as fact.

A Certification of Live Birth is NOT a registration AFTER the birth. Late registrations are issued a Certificate of Live Birth, same as any other birth.

A Certification of Live Birth is a CERTIFIED COPY of the ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

In fact, I understand that even Hawaii, the issuer, won't take a COLB in lieu of an actual Birth Certificate.

Your understanding is completely incorrect.

By Hawaiian law, a Certification of Live Birth is to be considered for all purposes the same as the original birth certificate.

Please read what it says at the bottom of every Hawaiian Certification of Live Birth:

This copy serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding. [HRS 338-13(b), 338-19]

Now, see that "[HRS 338-13(b), 338-19]" at the end? "HRS" stands for Hawaii Revised Statutes. And the numbers for the relevant sections of the Hawaii Revised Statutes.

Here is Section 338-13 in its entirety:

§338-13 Certified copies. (a) Subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18, the department of health shall, upon request, furnish to any applicant a certified copy of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate, or any part thereof.

(b) Copies of the contents of any certificate on file in the department, certified by the department shall be considered for all purposes the same as the original, subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18.

(c) Copies may be made by photography, dry copy reproduction, typing, computer printout or other process approved by the director of health. [L 1949, c 327, §17; RL 1955, §57-16; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-13; am L 1978, c 49, §1]


And just for the sake of completeness, here is Section 338-19:

§338-19 Photostatic or typewritten copies of records. The department of health is authorized to prepare typewritten, photostatic, or microphotographic copies of any records and files in its office, which by reason of age, usage, or otherwise are in such condition that they can no longer be conveniently consulted or used without danger of serious injury or destruction thereof, and to certify to the correctness of such copies. The typewritten, photostatic, or microphotographic copies shall be competent evidence in all courts of the State with like force and effect as the original. [L 1949, c 327, §23; RL 1955, §57-22; am L 1957, c 8, §1; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-19]

So, as is made quite clear by the certificate itself and Hawaiian law, a Certification of Live Birth is NOT a "registration AFTER birth" as you and others falsely claim, but rather it is a CERTIFIED COPY of the ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

Again, you need to stop swallowing the bullshit that's posted on the web and passed off as fact.

SECOND - 'Natural-Born Citizenship' is not attained by being born in US.

Any and all amendments confer citizenship, however, they do NOT confer 'Natural-Born Citizenship'.

You can be 'Born Citizen', be a 'Naturalized Citizen', 'Native Citizen', etc... However, still not be a 'Natural-Born Citizen' as required by Article II.


So tell us, what DOES confer "natural born citizenship," if not being born within the US.

THIRD - The fact that Obama went to Pakistan in 1981. THAT's where, I believe, Obama lost eligibility.

US Citizens not being able to go to Pakistan at that time, yet, he went there. The fact that this happened AFTER he became an adult and any & all actions that he partook consciously as an adult.


This is complete bullshit.

US citizens were not prohibited from traveling to Pakistan at the time Obama went there.

This is yet another myth that won't die because rubes like you keep swallowing it and regurgitating it all over the web.

I challenge you to find any State Department document, press release or news article supporting this claim.

In the meantime, I note that there's absolutely no mention of any prohibitions on US citizens traveling to Pakistan in this New York Times travel piece written in June of 1981, the same year Obama went to Pakistan:

Lahore, A Survivor With a Bittersweet History

k

Koyaan November 22, 2008 11:30 AM  

Tired of being called racist wrote:

The fact that Hawaii became a US state AFTER Obama was born...

Excuse me?

Last I looked, Hawaii became a US state in 1959. Two years BEFORE Obama was born.

What, are you chronologically dyslexic or something?

k

Koyaan November 22, 2008 11:36 AM  

Michael wrote:

Is it just me, or does it seem odd that Obama and the DNC would retain Joe Sandler, an attorney for CAIR, a.k.a. the Council on American-Islamic Relations, the leftist “civil liberties” group that specializes in stifling free speech, for defense in the Berg case ???

First, Obama didn't retain Sandler. Second, if you'd done just a modicum of research, you would have discovered that Sandler has been the General Counsel for the DNC for about a decade now.

k

Anonymous,  November 22, 2008 4:52 PM  

"Prior to 1983, as a general rule British nationality could only be transmitted from the father through one generation only, and parents were required to be married." - wikipedia entry on British Act of 1948.

Provided he was born in Hawaii, Obama is an unnatural born citizen of the US, because the laws of jurisdiction, which the U.S. did not and does not dispute, made Obama a British subject at the moment of birth.

It all comes down to jurisdiction. Even if Obama was adopted by Obama Sr., he would still be a British subject at birth.

In order to negate Obama's British citizenship at the moment of birth, the Supreme Court would have to overturn the UK's Act of 1948 governing the offspring of male UK citizens who were married.

I really can't see the Supreme Court disputing the UK's claim of jurisdiction. The US Constitution's so-called grandfather clause explicitly rejects for POTUS all citizens who are outside of US jurisdiction at the moment of birth.

Anonymous,  November 22, 2008 5:16 PM  

On the Hawaii becoming a State question. Hawaii became a State in Aug. 1959, so nothing to grandfather BHO is there. (who was born in 1961)

Anonymous,  November 22, 2008 5:18 PM  

Anonymous said...
"Did produce it, the real question is why it is SOOOO hard for some of you to let it GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

- Of course you want us to let this GOOOOOOOOO. Your just don't want anyone to push through till the TRUTH come out.

kilted warrior November 22, 2008 7:11 PM  

I am new to this but I was reading some stuff about Hawaii,seems they claim to be a free nation and Clinton even signed a bill saying so.Could this mess up OB's chances??

Anonymous,  November 22, 2008 10:04 PM  

Compilation summary of the Obama Birth Certificate issue:

http://www.reagan.com/forum/view_thread.cfm?postid=1101&forum=38&category=25

Anonymous,  November 23, 2008 12:43 AM  

BO was born in 1961....Hawaii became a state in 1959.

Tired of being called racist,  November 23, 2008 9:23 AM  

My bad. This is what happens when trying to get out of work and don't check the facts BEFORE putting up my comments.

Thanks to everybody for correcting me.

So, I guess Obama can't be grandfathered. Too bad.

TO Koyaan,

'Natural-Born Citizen' is attained when a child is born in US to 2 US Citizens as far as I understand.

Now, you may just tell me I'm wrong, however, SCOTUS is going to review the matter on Dec. 5.

So, you figure out WHY SCOTUS is reviewing Mr. Donofrio's case and THEN let me know.

As for the COLB, let's see, based on your post, a certificate issued by the government can be copied and accepted. Fine. However, you didn't address the COLB being accepted IN LIEU of an Actual Birth Certificate.

Nice re-direction. Not good enough.

As for Obama's trip to Pakistan, you can say and state anything you want, however, it's amazing when you give links and quotations for everything EXCEPT this. Why is that?

Your reply is hogwash, you know it.

Bottom line, Obama is going to have a hard time getting officially elected. Drink some more Kool-Aid and chill.

dcomus,  November 23, 2008 11:06 AM  

Extensive research:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2136816/posts

Nat November 23, 2008 11:41 AM  

You are ranting about the "Constitutionality" of Obama as POTUS due to a fabricated Internet rumor about Obama's place of birth, yet you ignore Bush's behavior over the last 8 years. Isn't this ironic? Bush has posed the greatest threat to democracy and the Constitution of any president in the last 50 years, yet you people are bound and determined to find some way, no matter how absurd, to prevent our first fairly elected president since Clinton to take office. What a bunch of nutjobs. Seriously.

jeleasure November 23, 2008 4:55 PM  

Hi Jeff,
Concerned citizen, here. I am curious if you can get some very interesting information to Donofrio.
A friend of mine at Talk Wisdom received some information in her comments section that Donofrio should definately consider. The link to the actual blog comments section in reference is here .
In the comments section, Christine, from Talk Wisdom references this information and a link to it, saying, "I certainly hope that Mr. Donofrio has Mr. Polarik's research in his possession when his lawsuit case against Obama is reviewed!"

Here is the material she would like Donofrio to have, Conspiracy, forged image .
If you can get it to Donofrio, I think it should be passed on.
Thanks,
Jim

anamericanidiot November 29, 2008 10:20 AM  

I know it hurts to lose. I'm a conservative too. What just blows me away is that now we're so desperate we'll grasp at anything. This is all based on a rumor of a comment by an old woman in Kenya. If there was anything substantial to this Hillary Clinton would have been all over this. I have more complete response here: http://anamericanidiot.wordpress.com/2008/11/25/too-little-too-late/ Not spam just a full response. I hate defending Obama but sometimes we're just idiots.

Matt December 1, 2008 1:41 PM  

We are not idiots, maybe you haven't looked into all of the facts. From day one Obama has refused to make his college transcripts, donor info, and birth certificate public. This and all of the other shady lies about his associations and actions cause me, and other well educated people to be quite alarmed. I am not a conspiracy theorist at all, I am a well educated, business owner, husband, father of three, and proud US citizen who doesn't his country to elect someone who is not straight up about who he really is. I feel as though his lawyer training and eloquent speech has hypnotized a lot of reasonable people into believing his untruths and I need to be a part of the team of people who will stand up and expose it, and stand up for the constitution. So, please categorize only yourself as an idiot as you see fit, not the rest of the inquisitive folk here.

jeleasure December 1, 2008 7:02 PM  

Matt,
Way to take a stand!

I am very pleased to not feel as if I am the only one with a passion to bring this problem to some resolve.

Jim

Richard,  December 1, 2008 10:24 PM  

This is hilarious, all this angst and consternation from the same people that looked the other way when George W. Bush SUED his way to POTUS. The lawsuit brought an illegal end to the legal and required recount of votes in Florida (isn't that what the election process is supposed to be?)

Citizenship is a RIGHT to all those born unto US citizens, NOT a privilege.

jerbear1 December 2, 2008 11:44 AM  

So, maybe the Messiah will have to prove he was born in the US...If he is a Fraud we need him away from us...Jerry

Anonymous,  December 5, 2008 12:35 PM  

At the present time I'm watching a re-run of "JFK" with Kevin Costner, and am wondering how deep this Obama conspiracy actually goes. Having grown up in Dallas, and having been a 7th grader there in November of 1963, things that smack of a political coverup don't sit well with me. I am praying for this all to be brought to the light of day.

THE ULTIMATE DETERMINANT IN THE STRUGGLE GOING ON FOR THE WORLD
WILL NOT BE BOMBS AND ROCKETS BUT A TEST OF WILLS AND IDEAS -- A TRIAL OF SPIRITUAL RESOLVE:

THE VALUES WE HOLD,
THE BELIEFS WE CHERISH,
AND THE IDEALS TO WHICH WE ARE DEDICATED.


RONALD REAGAN
(1911 - 2004)

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