Second Eligibility-Related Action Pending Before U.S. Supreme Court Weathers Procedural Roadblocks
After being denied, dismissed and otherwise turned back in the Superior Court of New Jersey, Appellate Division, and the New Jersey Supreme Court, retired lawyer and professional poker player Leo Donofrio is taking the ultimate gamble and bringing his eligibility-related action before the United States Supreme Court. Donofrio, however, alleges that he has already been dealt a poor hand.
THE CASE
In his action filed against New Jersey Secretary of State Nina Mitchell Wells, Donofrio contends that Wells has not fulfilled her duty as Secretary of State to independently verify the constitutional qualifications of the presidential candidates before placing them on the ballot in the Garden State. Specifically, Donofrio notes in the brief accompanying the Application for Emergency Stay filed with the U.S. Supreme Court, Wells was required by N.J.S.A. 19:13-22 to make a statement in which she certifies and signs off on the names of the candidates on the ballots. The statute, in relevant part with emphasis added:
According to Donofrio, the underlying issue at the heart of his action is the word “born” in Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution, which of course states in part that only natural-born citizens can be eligible to serve as president of the United States. “The status required by Article 2, Section 1, must be present ‘at birth,’” Donofrio wrote on his Web page. “To be a ‘natural born citizen’ there must be nothing unnatural about your citizenship ‘at birth.’ Natural, in this context, means to be unencumbered by the laws of any other nation.”
The Secretary of State, not later than eighty-six days before any election whereat any candidates nominated in any direct petition or primary certificate of nomination or State convention certificate filed with him are to be voted for, shall make and certify, under his hand and seal of office, and forward to the clerks of the several counties of the State a statement of all such candidates for whom the voters within such county may be by law entitled to vote at such election.
That, he says, is the foundation for his allegations that President-elect Barack Obama is not eligible to serve as president.
“My argument is much more simple to prove and understand,” Donofrio writes, obviously referencing the lawsuit filed by Philadelphia attorney Philip Berg, also currently in the hands of the U.S. Supreme Court. “Obama’s father was a Kenyan national and so, regardless of where Obama was born, he was ‘at birth’ subject to the laws of both the United States and of Kenya and as such he is not a natural born citizen of the United States and cannot hold the office of president.”
Because of his interpretation of the Natural Born Citizen clause, Donofrio’s legal action does not stop with Obama. For that reason, he told America’s Right over the telephone yesterday in a 20-minute telephone conversation, his legal challenge is, in fact, “a non-partisan suit.” John McCain, he says, was born in Panama. Socialist Workers Party candidate Roger Calero, who appeared along with his party in one form or another on the ballot in at least eight states, was born in Nicaragua. And, says Donofrio, the question of Barack Obama’s birthplace has not been fully answered, but is in fact irrelevant because of Obama’s Kenyan father.
According to Donofrio, the strength of his case lies not only in its simplicity, but in his avoidance of the standing issues which have bogged down similar suits across the country. Donofrio, in fact, insists that he has standing to sue Secretary of State Wells as a New Jersey citizen, and notes that his standing was not challenged by the state Attorney General’s office in their reply brief filed on behalf of Wells, or by the Hon. Jack Sabatino in his five-page opinion and order denying his request for relief in the New Jersey Appellate Division.
PROBLEMS AT THE SUPREME COURT
While the issue of standing has not necessarily proven to be a hurdle, according to Donofrio, the problems he has encountered, however, were with the stay clerk in the United States Supreme Court. Donofrio traveled to Washington, D.C. and filed the Application for Emergency Stay with the Court at 3:33 p.m. on Monday, Nov. 3. He insists that he was assured by the stay clerk that the Application would be promptly delivered to Justice Souter for review, noting that such procedure is required by Rule 22(1) of the United States Supreme Court Rules.
“Rule 22(1) clearly states that any application addressed to a particular Justice will be filed with the clerk and transmitted promptly to the Justice in question if that Justice has authority to grant the relief being sought,” Donofrio said. “Now, while I didn’t expect Justice Souter to grant the application, Rule 22(4) states that denial of a stay allows for resubmission to a Justice of your choice, and I was ready to resubmit it to Justice Thomas.”
Donofrio insists that he received no word back from the stay clerk on Tuesday, Election Day, and it wasn’t until Thursday, Nov. 6 that he was informed by the clerk that the Application was never delivered to Justice Souter “because he, the stay clerk, didn’t feel that it was an appropriate Application” and felt as though Donofrio should have filed a Petition for Writ of Certiorari.
“I was disgusted,” Donofrio told America’s Right. “It wasn’t his job to play Supreme Court justice. He’s not there to interpret the law, he’s there to accept the filings and pass them along to the proper Justice. Instead, this stay clerk basically made a substantive judgment of law and denied my application on his own.”
Finally, Donofrio says, after repeatedly trying to persuade him to “just drop it,” the stay clerk docketed the case, but initially did so erroneously, docketing it as an “Application for injunction pending the filing and disposition of a Petition for Writ of Certiorari” instead of an Application for Stay. Filing merely for an injunction, Donofrio argues, does not bring with it expedited review, while a Stay is “entitled to the most expedited review the Supreme Court has to offer.”
On Friday, Nov. 7, after much protest from Donofrio, the stay clerk did change the docket entry to reflect that a Stay had indeed been filed on Monday, Nov. 3. However, Donofrio says, the docket suddenly reflected also that Justice Souter had denied the Application for Emergency Stay on Thursday, Nov. 6 when the first erroneous docket had not shown any such decision had been made.
“How strange, I thought, that almost immediately after the docket was changed, Justice Souter’s decision was shown on there,” he said.
Donofrio called the incidents “unorthodox” and mentioned that his case has been improperly “stopped in its tracks.” The same laws apply all around, he says, to Obama just as it would have applied to McCain if he had prevailed last week, just as it applies to Roger Colera notwithstanding his dismal chances of victory. Regardless, Donofrio maintains that his motives were pure, and just wants to have his case heard on its merits.
“In filing this, I wasn’t looking for publicity,” he said. “I wasn’t looking for my name in the papers, I wasn’t looking for donations or money. I was merely looking for the courts to uphold our laws and the guidelines set forth in our constitution.”
COMMENTARY
Over the past few months, in covering the lawsuit filed by Philip Berg against Barack Obama, I have tried to be as fair and objective as I could be in spite of my political leanings, doing my level best with what rudimentary legal knowledge I possess to explain in fairly common terms the arguments of those on both sides of the action. While Mr. Donofrio was certainly very nice and seemed very level-headed on the telephone, I would be remiss if I did not similarly play Devil’s Advocate here where necessary.
Before getting into potential problems with his line of thinking, I must admit that Donofrio was absolutely correct in stating that the stay clerk was bound by duty to expeditiously deliver the Application for Emergency Stay to Justice Souter, and in not doing so, that clerk could very likely be subject to administrative repercussions. Furthermore, while the stay clerk could very well have been right to inform Donofrio that a Petition for Writ of Certiorari was required if that were to be the eventual result, he should have processed the Application correctly nonetheless. Donofrio was correct in stating that the stay was treated as a petition for certiorari in Bush v. Gore, as it indeed was treated as such on December 9, 2000 – however, it was done so with the understanding that the petition would soon follow, and that the eventual petitioner would likely win.
From Justice Scalia in the unusual spectacle of a publicly aired internal disagreement on the issue of treating the stay as a petition for writ of certiorari:
On that Saturday in December eight years ago, the Court granted the stay and did, in fact, treat it as a petition for certiorari. The Court did so because, according to Justice Scalia, it felt that Bush was likely to succeed, and that the failure to stay the election could lead to irreparable harm. Also from Scalia’s opinion on the stay:
Though it is not customary for the Court to issue an opinion in connection with its grant of a stay, I believe a brief response is necessary to JUSTICE STEVENS’ dissent. I will not address the merits of the case, since they will shortly be before us in the petition for certiorari that we have granted. It suffices to say that the issuance of the stay suggests that a majority of the Court, while not deciding the issues presented, believe that the petitioner has a substantial probability of success.
Certainly, Scalia’s perspective that counting votes of questionable legality could lead to irreparable harm suffered by the nation as a whole suggests that Donofrio’s action could in fact be heard and could possibly prevail. However, the case would have to be heard on its merits, and while I like the overall tone of his substantive arguments, I fear that is where Donofrio’s case falters a bit.
The counting of votes that are of questionable legality does in my view threaten irreparable harm to petitioner, and to the country, by casting a cloud upon what he claims to be the legitimacy of his election. Count first, and rule upon legality afterwards, is not a recipe for producing election results that have the public acceptance democratic stability requires.
First, Donofrio provides no common law support whatsoever to his interpretation that the word “natural,” in the context of Article II, Section 1, means as he maintains it does, “unencumbered by the laws of any other nation.” While he may very well be right in arguing that Barack Obama is America’s first president born with dual citizenship, according to Lawrence Solum’s 2008 commentary, Originalism and the Natural Born Citizen Clause (reviewed here at America’s Right in early October), there is currently no clear understanding of our founders’ original intent with regard to the Natural Born Citizen clause. Now, of course, there may be a clean slate in terms of interpretation, and this indeed would be a case of first impression in that regard, but it would nonetheless behoove Donofrio to provide even a smattering of support as his interpretation of "natural" and "born" does run to the heart of his claim that the Secretary of State failed to honor her obligations with regard to balloting.
Secondly, United States law clearly provides now—as it did in August of 1961—that an individual born in the United States is both a “natural born citizen” and “subject to U.S. jurisdiction.” If that child was born in the United States, the nationality of that child’s parents has no impact whatsoever on his status as a natural born citizen of the United States of America, dual citizenship be damned; this, of course, is at the heart of the debate over “anchor babies” and illegal immigration. Nevertheless, Donofrio suggests that it doesn’t matter what Obama’s birth certificate says because his father was a Kenyan national, but in fact it does. If Obama was born in Honolulu as he maintains (I’d still like to see a long-form birth certificate, of course), he would be considered a natural born citizen.
Thirdly, characterizing Barack Obama’s father as a Kenyan citizen could be considered incorrect. Technically, at the time of our president-elect’s birth in 1961, Kenya was a colony of the United Kingdom. It was not until two years later that the Kenya we know today was born and declared independent from the U.K. Still, even if Barack Hussein Obama, Sr. was a U.K. citizen, his son would still be considered natural born if he were indeed born in Honolulu.
Finally, Donofrio could very well have misread the New Jersey statute in question and at the very heart of his case against Secretary of State Wells. After all, “by law entitled” could be a reference to the voters and not the candidates, a question of whether the voters are eligible to mark the ballots in question, not whether the candidates have a right to be on there. If that is how the statute is to be construed, the case fails, as the matter at hand is not necessarily presidential eligibility but rather the Secretary of State’s purported failure to live up to her statutory obligations. Donofrio, of course, appears to feel otherwise, and I do understand where he comes from.
“There are various statutes within the code which govern the citizens as to voting, but this isn’t one of them,” he wrote in the brief accompanying the U.S. Supreme Court filing. “The statute isn’t about suffrage. It commands the Secretary of State to protect voters.”
All in all, Leo Donofrio makes some compelling arguments and certainly presents a different perspective on the proceedings we’ve seen from Philip Berg and others. I am extremely interested to see how this matter is treated by Justice Thomas, especially considering Justice Scalia's words in the opinion accompanying the granting of the stay in Bush v. Gore.
Should this case not work out, I do not feel that all is lost, either. Personally, despite my frustration that so many unanswered questions remain as to Barack Obama’s background and campaign finance records, I am optimistic that his election could actually be good for the United States of America, much in the same sense that surviving a serious motor vehicle accident will often provide the survivor with a new-found love for life. Barack Obama could indeed do lasting damage to the United States of America in four years' time, but I am confident in America and Americans and therefore cannot help but be optimistic about our nation's future -- so long as we survive until 2012.
As I wrote on three separate occasions (click HERE, HERE and HERE) in the days following last week’s election, I am confident that, should the Republican Party get back to basics and creatively and effectively convey a traditional message rooted in the tenets of conservatism, America will emerge from a Barack Obama administration stronger for it. We need to ensure that our eye is on the ball, that our focus is on Obama’s conduct in the Oval Office, and on the action and inaction of Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid’s Congress. The mainstream press cannot be trusted to be transparent when it comes to coverage of this upcoming administration and Congress, so while it is fine to keep watch on the courts when it comes to actions like those filed by Donofrio and Philip Berg, we cannot let this vigilance take away either from the attention we must devote to following the daily happenings on Capitol Hill, or from the efforts we must take to spread the conservative message in the face of a media which would like nothing more than to see us fail.
Personally, now that the election has come and gone, and despite the unanswered questions surrounding so many aspects of Barack Obama's candidacy and campaign, I believe that America will be best served if the enthusiasm and energy surrounding these cases were also used to promote the merits of conservatism to our nation's youth, to revolutionize the GOP's ground game in much the same way--if not better--than Obama changed the operations of his party, and to ensure that the American voting public know what is going on in Washington and how we, through those traditional conservative principles fiscal and otherwise, could do better.
Obama's election, however frustrating, provides the conservative movement and the United States of America as a whole with a tremendous window of opportunity -- let's make sure we take advantage of it.
UPDATE, 9:45am:
Response from Donofrio deems America's Right piece "erroneous," aforementioned arguments "legally false and naive."
If former New Jersey lawyer Leo Donofrio were given the chance to argue his case before the United States Supreme Court, he may very likely be asked to show common law support for his assertion that the word "natural" in Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution suggests a lack of encumberances to any other nation besides ours. In playing Devil's Advocate, I advanced that very line of questioning, and just this morning received an e-mail from Mr. Donofrio stating that my legal arguments "are legally wrong and naive."
If he cannot handle a law student playing Devil's Advocate without immediately turning to inflammatory rhetoric, how does he expect to handle Justice Stephen Breyer?
Per our telephone conversation, I had intended to engage in a question-and-answer post with Mr. Donofrio--I warned him that I would be tough and fair and, in doing so, would argue against his points, and he told me to "swing away"--but at this point do not believe it necessary, as he answers most of everything to the best of his ability in the response on his Web site, in which he deems my attempt at merely playing Devil's Advocate, at merely presenting a contrary argument, as being filled with "false contentions" and "erroneous statements."
His response is centered around my argument--again, playing Devil's Advocate--that he does not provide any case law support, from any level, of his interpretation of the Natural Born Citizen clause. In his filings, he does not, and he would most certainly be called upon it should his action reach the highest court in the land.
According to Donofrio in his response and in his filings, he did provide support for this claim by citing to the 14th Amendment, which he states does in fact not address or grant "natural born citizen" status. To me, this is a rather circular argument -- he states that his support for the interpretation of "natural" is based on his citation to an Amendment that doesn't address the issue of "natural born citizen," yet nonetheless he unequivocally relies upon it to conclude that "natural born citizen" means "born in the US and subject to the jurisdiction of the US." Above and beyond his failure to point to a case at any time, in any court, at any level backing up his interpretation of the constitution and subsequent claim, his reliance on such a circular, self-perpetuating argument came across, to me, as a fundamental lack of support for his most basic argument at the root of his case.
To the extent that Donofrio does rely on the 14th Amendment for his interpretation of the word "natural" used in Article II, Section 1, that argument fails. Over 100 years ago, the U.S. Supreme Court expressly held that a child born in the United States to foreign nationals is without a doubt a U.S. Citizen, enjoys that status from birth, and is therefore "natural born." I cite cases. See, for example, United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898). Wong Kim Ark was born in the U.S. to two Chinese foreign nationals. As a young man, Wong traveled to China and, upon return, was re-admitted to the U.S. on the grounds that he was a "native-born citizen of the United States." He returned to China four years later, and upon his attempted return to the United States, he was detained as a non-citizen because, although born in the U.S., his parents were Chinese citizens, and therefore, he also was a Chinese person and a subject of the Emperor of China. In that case, the U.S. Supreme Court held that under the 14th Amendment, a child born in the United States--to parents who are citizens subjects of a foreign power who live in the US (other than diplomats, etc.)--is, in fact, a US citizen from birth. In other words, that child is a "natural born citizen."
Thus, Donofrio's argument to the contrary--that the 14th Amendment does not involve "natural born citizenship" status--goes against well-established U.S. Supreme Court precedence. Furthermore, there are several additional State and US Supreme Court cases that rule similarly to Wong Kim Ark, all of which find that a child born in the United States to foreign national parents (other than diplomats, etc.) are considered natural born citizens.
The bottom line here is that, despite being absolutely disgusted that Barack Obama has withheld vital information and gotten away with it, I am not a mouthpiece for people who want to sue the guy. Just as I have done with Philip Berg's action, just as I have presented the other procedural perspective, just as I disproved one of Berg's causes of action outright, I will do my level best to present all sides of these issues. I cannot protest the one-sided bias in the mainstream press out of one corner of my mouth, and then subsequently only present one side of a story or argument out of the other. Shouting without listening does nobody any good.
If that's what you want, go to Phil Berg's Web site, or Leo Donofrio's Web blog. You won't find that here.
Leo Donofrio said a lot of things this morning, and did not respond to the piece in the respect I thought he would, given our interaction yesterday. With regard to his response this morning, there is certainly more to be said. If I think it's necessary, more will follow as soon as I have time.
-- Jeff


65 comments:
A well-wrought critique, as usual, Jeff, but I must disagree regarding an Obama presidency being an opportunity for us to return stronger. I fear that if Obama isn't stopped by the Court or removed from the presidency in short order, the harm his radical agenda will do to our country in the next four, or, God forbid, eight years will be irreparable.
The opportunities for attacks and infiltration by Islamic insurgents, as has happened in Europe, will be crippling beyond anything politics can solve. So many have lost their discernment, especially among the young, that turning back from global socialism will be a virtual impossibility. Obama must be stopped soon or we will never recover the America we knew.
As much as I would like to make my life easier and move on, the US Constitution must be upheld.
Jeff,
The one thing that has troubled me all along is that I KNOW the CIA, the FBI, NSA, and probably Homeland Security have all been gathering intelligence on Obama for AT LEAST two years--and probably much, much longer. I think everything negative we've learned about him, beginning with his mother's socialist education in a suburban Seattle high school, has been known to America's intelligence communities for years. We would probably be mortified if we knew everything about Obama that the CIA and FBI know.
So why has it all been kept secret by the conservative powers-that-be? I just feel like the CIA already has Obama's college records, his passport records, his birth certificate(whether it's Hawaiian or Kenyan or something else).
Why did the Bush administration not prevent him from stealing the Democratic Presidential nomination? Why did they not leak documents to the conservative press, documents too important to bury, even if they're being told to promote him? Why is everyone, up to and including the Supreme Court of America, fighting disclosure concerning Barack Obama?
The reason HAS to be more than the obvious unspoken dread everyone is tiptoeing around--fear of triggering racial riots. Is keeping the civil peace and "at last" having a black President (though half caucasian), ANY black President--no matter how far-left radical he is--worth destroying everything good this country stands for, worth destroying the Constitution? I, for one, think not. Bring on the riots if it means learning the TRUTH.
Something is rotten, but it ain't in Denmark.
Jeff,
If Andy Martin is right about Obama's true father, could this be the missing link in his birth records Obama does not want known?
And, will some reporter simply ask Barack Obama about this (from bouncingrealitychecks.blogspot.com):
“OBAMA’S REAL BIRTH LOCATION, AND HIS REAL FATHER: FRANK MARSHALL DAVIS
In light of the fact that the judge in the Philip Berg v. Obama and DNC case dismissed this case because of lack of standing on the part of Mr. Berg, ( http://www.americasright.com ), it is unfortunate indeed that citizens (until our Worthless Congress takes their heads out of their a**es and writes some laws protecting us from allowing this type of situation) have no recourse to prevent this situation we are about to enter, and simply must proceed to either a constitutional crisis or total destruction of the country by a Marxist communist who is likely foreign born and not even basically qualified to be President. The judge might like to do more, but unless he “legislates from the bench” like liberal judges would (he is a Republican I understand), he has to rule on the basis of law — and I agree with his decision on that basis. As unfortunate as it is, the judge is likely correct in his ruling.
Here’s my take on the Obama citizenship situation. My view is a combination of both the Andy Martin theories and the Philip Berg theories. (See links in previous posts shown below.) It takes both into consideration and doesn’t ignore any of the possible scenarios. My theory:
Obama is a dead ringer for Frank Marshall Davis. Frank Marshall Davis is his father, and the “Anne” in Frank Marshall Davis’ sex/porn book IS Ann, Obama’s mother. There was an agreement between Frank Marshall Davis (as Andy Martin states) and Barack Obama, Sr. for Obama, Sr. to pose as Barack’s father. As the birth approached, Obama, Sr. wanted to move back to Kenya, and Ann agreed to go with him. She intended to come back to Hawaii before Barack’s birth and give birth to him in Hawaii. Unknowingly, she waited to long, and was too close to giving birth that the airline would not let her board a flight back to the U.S. She had no choice but to give birth to Barack in Kenya. She did, and within days after the birth flew back to Hawaii to get birth documentation. However, she was not able to get a full-fledged birth certificate since he was not born in Hawaii and only could obtain the Live Birth documentation. Additionally, Barack was not qualified to be a “natural-born citizen” as she was not yet 19 (the law at the time for children born to parents while overseas). Barack’s paternal grandmother claimed she was present for his birth in Kenya, and this is likely the case. The fraud was perpetuated until present, and she likely still does not know that Obama is not her blood grandson.
Obama, Sr. never really had a connection with Barack, Jr. as he was not his blood son, and didn’t really try to maintain any consistent relationship with him. However, the facade was continued by Ann and her parents. In Hawaii Barack became close to Frank Marshall Davis but Barack did not know until much later that Frank was Barack’s father. One reason why Barack may not want the public to know that Frank Marshall Davis was his father is likely because of Frank’s Communist admissions, and membership in the Communist Party USA (even though his stated father, Barack Obama, Sr., was also a Marxist communist, but was not as related to the United States politically).
Another reason Barack may not want you to know that Frank Marshall Davis was his father is because of Davis’s graphic and infamous sex/porn book “Sex Rebel: Black (Memoirs of a Gash Gourmet),” (written under pseudonym “Bob Greene”); Greenleaf Publishing Company (Evanston, IL), 1968. This would not reflect well on Barack, especially in light of the fact that Frank Marshall Davis had homosexual proclivities, and Barack has been connected to the scandal that involved deaths of 3 homosexual men in Rev. Wright’s Trinity church near the end of 2007, even though the news media has tried to cover up any link to Barack Obama in this situation. See http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/members_
Internet birth certificate poses new problems for Obama "cover-up" says Andy Martin
Yes, Jeff, we must move on now and be vigilent! I will be committing as much time as possible to this cause. I found, from a blog entry, a great site for conservatives to take action and take back our party:
reaganaction.com
Michael Reagan is starting it, and one can sign up for free and donate if desired. It is going to be a great tool to keep tabs on congressional and presidential going-ons. He assures that it will be a quick easy way to get involved and let our voices be heard.
SIGN UP EVERYBODY, AND SPREAD THE WORD!!!
Please share other sites if you hear of them.
Good morning, Jeff.
I just wanted to ask if you see any value in writing the electors directly, as volunteers are being asked to do with form letters at www.democratic-disaster.com/ ?
I'm wondering if I should bother with this, or if there are any potential repercussions?
Thank you.
You've been a steady rock throughout all of this.
Jeff, thank you for the informative article. I just feel that we are setting a very dangerous president if we do not try to get Obama to show his birth certificate proving that he is indeed a natural born citizen. Moreover, we also need to have FEC audit Obama's campaign for campaign fraud. Future elections will hand on the balance. We need to insure that something like this will not happen again.
Jeff, as the Devil's advocate, you are inappropriately sanguine about the correctness of your conclusion that being born within the confines of a U.S. state makes one a "natural born citizen" for purposes of the U.S. Constitution's presidential eligibility clause.
Suppose, for the moment, that Mr. Donofrio is correct, and the definition of "natural born citizen" as that term is used in the Constitution, and was understood by the founders at the time the Constitution was adopted, excludes one who is born within the confines of a U.S. state but is the child of at least one foreign national so as to beget divided loyalty.
Do you suppose any act of Congress, undertaken subsequent to the adoption of the Constitution, can have the effect of changing this definition in a way favorable to Barack Obama? You must see, of course, by the way I'm phrasing this question, that my point is, no such act of Congress would be sufficient to bring about such a result. Rather, the Constitution itself would need to be amended.
You appear uncomfortable with what you consider to be a "thin gruel" offered by Mr. Donofrio as proof of his position that only a pure and unencumbered domestic birth can endow an individual with Constitutionally-approved "natural born citizen" status. Have you considered the fact that the issue at hand is a case of first impression for the U.S. Supreme Court? By definition, positions staked out by litigants in cases of first impression in a given court are unsupported by prior case law in that court. And considering the fact (see above) that Congress is powerless to pass legislation to alter the definition of the Constitutional term "natural born citizen", Mr. Donofrio is quite wise, in my estimation, to refrain from dabbling in arguments designed to distinguish adverse provisions in U.S. statutory law. The latter is of no moment, except insofar as it may tend to shed light on how the term "natural born citizen" was understood by those who ratified and adopted the Constitution. Please also consider that there may be a preponderance of evidence to show that what the founders were trying to do was to exclude people with divided or diluted loyalty to our country from being elevated to the Presidency, all of which evidence would presumably accrue to Mr. Donofrio's benefit in terms of proving his case.
G.C.
New Jersey
From Mainemom:
Jeff, some of us just can't go gently into that good night.
Henri Frederic Amiel:
" Truth is not only violated by falsehood; it may be equally outraged by silence. "
Good article. However, I disagree on the notion that we should move on. If there is a problem with the birth certificate, than what happens in the United States subsequent to that is the fault of only one person-Obama.
I'll be posting this now....
Today Jeff Shrieber of the http://www.americasright.com blog posted a story concerning the legal issues in my pending US Supreme Court case seeking to challenge the results of the 2008 Presidential national election. I have quoted selected erroenous statements made by Mr. Schreiber with my comments following below each:
"First, Donofrio provides no support whatsoever to his interpretation that the word “natural,” in the context of Article II, Section 1, means as he maintains it does, “unencumbered by the laws of any other nation.”
The evidence is in the !4th Amendment, where it clearly states that people born in the US are "citizens", as long as they are "subject to the jurisdiction of the US". The 14th Amendment does not grant "natural born citizen" status. Mr. Schreiber may not agree with my evidence/arguments, but he has no right to say I provided "No support whatsoever". I've cited much legislative history as well as the direct wording of the Constitution itself. The most important piece of evidence I provide is as that the 14th Amendment only confers "citizen" status as that is the word used by the Amendment itself. The 14 Amendment does NOT state that it grants "natural born citizen" status.
" While he may very well be right in arguing that Barack Obama is America’s first president born with dual citizenship, according to Lawrence Solum’s 2008 commentary, Originalism and the Natural Born Citizen Clause (reviewed here at America’s Right in early October), there is currently no clear understanding of our founders’ original intent with regard to the Natural Born Citizen clause."
And if that's true then this is ripe for the SCOTUS to make such a determination which is all I was ever trying to accomplish. Since the country has been so divided on these issues, then let the pros decide. I have my opinion and I have supported it with law, facts and arguments, and I have done my job to see that the case gets before the SCOTUS, and now it's up to them. The issuse couldn't be more ripe for review.
"Now, there may be a clean slate in terms of interpretation, of course, but it would nonetheless behoove Donofrio to provide even a smattering of support as it does run to the heart of his claim that the Secretary of State failed to honor her obligations with regard to balloting."
And here Mr. Schreiber, albeit a struggling law student and not a professional lawyer, faiuls to grasp the context of my suit. My law suit was originally brought in order to force the Secretary of State to exercise her statutory and Constitutional duty to investigate which candidates are eligible to be President. There is no dispute as to the issue of whether she did anything to "certify" which candidates are "by law entitled" (NJSA 19:13-22) to appear on the ballots, not is there any evidence that she took any act to uphold her oath of office as to support and protect the US Constitution. She did nothing and it has been admitted by one of her key subordinates.
My suit was brought in order to make the Secretary of States do "something" to protect the integrity of the ballots as per her oath of office and as is required by NJSA 19:13-22, a statute specifically addressed to the Secretary of State with regards to ballot integrity. The fact that Roger Calero, born in Nicaragua, had his name lsited on New Jersey ballots is proof positive Secretary Wells did nothing to protect New jersey voters from fraudulent and frivolous candidates and and was therefore guilty of misfeasance since other Secretaries of State did have Mr. Calero's name removed from their ballots.
She also admits she did nothing to determine whether McCain and Obama were eligible. I asked the lower courts to take Judicial Notice of the many cases being run through US federal and state courts in a frenzy of confusion as to the issues surrounding candidates eligibility. I wasn't asking for the court to determine the facts of those cases or the merits, I simply was using them to show that a geuine controversy was raging in America as evidence that the "natural born citizen" issue needed to be addressed by the Secretary of State as it is her job to police the integrity of New Jersey elections and if there was no clear determination as to who is eligible under Article 2, Section 1, then there was no possible way she could certify that these candidates were, in fact, "by law entitled" to have their names of New Jersey ballots.
By way evidence, which Mr. Schreiber chose to ignore, I made reference to and quoted the current US Foreign Affairss Manual which states:
7 FAM 1131.6-2 Eligibility for Presidency
a. It has never been determined definitively by a court whether a person who acquired U.S. citizenship by birth abroad to U.S. citizens is a natural born citizen within the meaning of Article II of the Constitution and, therefore, eligible for the Presidency.
b. Section 1, Article II, of the Constitution states, in relevant part that “No Person except a natural born Citizen...shall be eligible for the Office of President,"
c. The Constitution does not define "natural born".
The “Act to establish an Uniform Rule of Naturalization”, enacted March 26, 1790, (1 Stat.103,104) provided that, “...the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born ... out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens: Provided that the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States.”
d. This statute is no longer operative, however, and its formula is not included in modern nationality statutes. In any event, the fact that someone is a natural born citizen pursuant to a statute does not necessarily imply that he or she is such a citizen for Constitutional purposes. (Emphasis added.)
I point out here, as I did in my SCOTUS stay application that the manual fails to mention Congress specifically repealed the "natural born" part of the 1790 act in the Naturalization Act of 1795 leaving only the word "citizen" and repealing the words "natural born" thereto.
Secretaary Wells had a job to do and she didn't do it. Not having done that job, and there being no issue of genuine fact to dispute, I asked for a stay of the NJ ballots to be put in place for the length of time it would take the Secretary to do her job and make a proper determination as to the eligibility of the candidates. That was her job to do, not mine. I raised the Constitutional issues because these issues were potential road blocks to either of the major candidates being sworn in post-election. And there are, in fact, going to be post election challenges.
I sought to make the Secretary do her job as the chief election official in NJ charged with securing the integrity of New Jersey's electoral process. It's not my job to do her job, but rather it's my job as a citizen to use the law to command her to do her job.
"Secondly, United States law clearly provides now—as it did in August of 1961—that an individual born in the United States is both a 'natural born citizen' and 'subject to U.S. jurisdiction.' "
And where exactly does it say that such a person is a "natural born citizen" in the 14th Amendment? It doesn't say that anywhere, and that's the main point of my case. Had the US Legislature and the States that ratified the 14th Amendment sought to grant the status of "natural born citizen" by virtue of simply having been born on US soil, than that's what the 14th Amendment would say, but it does not say that. Such an allegation is pure fiction.
"If that child was born in the United States, the nationality of that child’s parents has no impact whatsoever on his status as a natural born citizen of the United States of America, dual citizenship be damned; this, of course, is at the heart of the debate over “anchor babies” and illegal immigration."
This is completely false. The "anchor babies" issue deals with whether those children are "citizens", not whether they are "natural born citizens" elegible to hold the office of President of the United States. They are not so eligible since, at birth, they are also subject to the jurisdiction of the countries their parents are citizens of.
"Nevertheless, Donofrio suggests that it doesn’t matter what Obama’s birth certificate says because his father was a Kenyan national, but in fact it does. If Obama was born in Honolulu as he maintains (I’d still like to see a long-form birth certificate, of course), he is a natural born citizen."
Wrong. The 14th Amendment does not use the words "natural born citizen", it uses the word "citizen". The Constitution uses the word "citizen" in the 14th Amendment, but the only place the Constitution discusses "natural born citizen" is in Article 2, Section 1, and ONLY as to that being an absolute qualifier for those seeking to hold the highest office in the land, President of the United States. It makes sense that the framers would have required those seeking this office to have a totally pure and natural tie to this country unencumbered by dual nationalities at birth.
But despite whether Mr. Screiber does or does not believe my evidence and legal arguments, it is specious for him to imply that I have provided no evidence to make my case. I have provided many citations and various legislative history to make my case, and Mr. Schreiber has included none of it in his blog, but has, instead, chosen to hide the fact that such arguments and legal support have been provided by me to the various courts this case has been run through.
I agree with citizen wells...BUT...WHY, WHY, WHY was this man not vetted properly, if indeed, he was not??? I cannot believe that the Clinton's, if they suspected improper papers would not have challenged Mr. Obama. Perhaps I am naive, but I have to believe that someone along the way would have presented some strong questions. Too late...I don't know. I do know that those who elected him would strongly protest and any accusation would not get very far.
With regards to Obama, what the SCOTUS will have to decide is whether he, as a dual citizen at birth of both the US and the UK (which changed to Kenya after its independence) can be considered to be a natural citizen of the US or not. His campaign through its Fight the Smears website already admitted that he was a Kenyan citizen although they claim he lost it when he turned 18. Judah Benjamin covered this in a number of essays at TD's blog and came to the conclusion that dual citizens are NOT considered natural born citizens.
http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/09/25/breaking-obama-admits-dual-citizenship
http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/07/25/divided-loyalties-pt-1
http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/07/25/divided-loyalties-pt-2
Leo:
I don't think you need to concern yourself about characterizations of the strength or weakness of your case found here or anywhere else other than from a court of law of competent jurisdiction. You are in the driver's seat, and as such, we all have an interest in you keeping your eyes on the road!
As for me, I value this forum as a good source of information on the progress of your case. So if I were you, which I'm clearly not and would never substitute my perspective for yours, I'd take it easy on poor law student Jeff. He's clearly trying to avoid being tagged as a partisan, and has shown good faith in eliminating potentially slanderous comments.
In any event, I hope you hang in there and keep pressing your case before the Supremes. I hope they earn their pay this month!
G.C.
New Jersey
Our nation is a complete mess from top down. There needs to be some serious cleaning house going on, taking out the trash and bringing in new honest people that uphold the law rather than break it.
On another note, I'm completely disgusted to see how stupid most Americans are, to vote for a fraud communist like Obama and believe that it's a good thing for our country. Another thing, people of this country under the age of 21 should not have the right to vote whatsoever. Stupid young people were voting for Obama just because he was on MTV or some other stupid notion, and then on all the other issues on the ballot they would vote for whatever person had the most attractive name. The election process needs some serious revamping; to start with eliminating high-school graduates the right to vote for whatever person has the most appealing name, rather than the most qualified person for the position. If you can’t drink before you are 21, then why the hell are you allowed to vote? Someone that has no clue about themselves, let-alone what an election really means should have no right to vote whatsoever. This country’s policies are ass-backwards, and need some serious adjusting!!!
Voting is a privilege and the highest responsibility bestowed upon citizens of this country next to jury duty. If people don’t have the capacity to be responsible enough in this endeavor, then they have no right to vote! There needs to be set in place laws prohibiting anyone under the age of at least 21 the right to vote for anything in this country!! Not to mention the fact that laws need to be enforced in the first place, that’s the biggest problem we are having right now. Stupid irresponsible people are allowed to run this country, this is a complete disgrace!!
Yes, I believe that there will be lessons learned and the good will have to suffer with the bad in these coming years. But we faithful citizens still will have to go down fighting. This future suffering will have to also involve the whole world. Unfortunately, rather than having the U.S. maintain its world leadership amidst this chaos, Mr. Obama and "friends" seems to relish this "perfect storm" as the chaos that brings them the opportunity to now throw our country under the bus of this fearful "new world order". He's never been one to have any experience with putting his life on the line for anything. He's been the puppet of the radicals with a seeming vengence within himself as well as it also seems to exist within his wife, for America - to have to "pay" as his mentors have influenced him. Let's face it, he agrees more with our enemies and his pathological narcissism of place in the world will fuel his socialistic world compromises.
His followers, dupes of the easy life and lemmings to socialistic education in the past decades, are actually willing to commit national suicide for thier "hope" cult leader. Yes, I fear it's that bad. Is he even building a homeland military to fight as his minions against our faithful traditional military that he fears and wishes more and more to demoralize with his liberal policies?
Let us pray that those of good will still within our highest court can offer some hope of an opening. We've boxed ourselves in by "precedent" immoral laws and may now have to learn the hard way - esp. since we, by our own God given free will - have pushed that Guidance out of the public square.
Thank you Jeff for your fine work. However, I cannot agree that we must simply "move on" for it is our very Constitution that is threatened.
Just because someone has been elected to serve as an official of the government, does not mean that they are no longer accountable for their past...especially since the American public is being the denied a full accounting and documentation of that past.
The “Act to establish an Uniform Rule of Naturalization”, enacted March 26, 1790, (1 Stat.103,104) provided that, “...the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born ... out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens: Provided that the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States.”
d. This statute is no longer operative, however, and its formula is not included in modern nationality statutes. In any event, the fact that someone is a natural born citizen pursuant to a statute does not necessarily imply that he or she is such a citizen for Constitutional purposes. (Emphasis added.)
I point out here, as I did in my SCOTUS stay application that the manual fails to mention Congress specifically repealed the "natural born" part of the 1790 act in the Naturalization Act of 1795 leaving only the word "citizen" and repealing the words "natural born" thereto.
-----------------------------------
To me, this argument is what should hold in order to determine just what was established UNDER THE CONSTITUTION....and all other later language used has to be considered under this intent.
I am wondering if Mr. Donofrio is still "hounding" the clerk re: the resubmission to Judge Thomas. It would seem that he should continue to question (even threaten) due to the motion that could have come down under the original incorrect filing by the clerk and the clerk just surreptitiously putting forth the ruling based on that misunderstanding by the Judge Souter himself - due to clerk's own ineptness. Leo, are you fighting this or just in waiting to even discover if the resubmission to Justice Thomas actually happened?
The strict principles of law must be adhered to most especially in our highest court of appeal.
God bless.
Barack Obama could indeed do lasting damage to the United States of America in four years' time, but I am confident in America and Americans and therefore cannot help but be optimistic about our nation's future -- so long as we survive until 2012.<<
Given that America has never had a President with strong Marxist leanings how can you conclude that everything will be allright? It seems to me that you are grasping at straws or roseries as it were.
What makes you think Obama will only govern for 4 or even 8 years? You have no basis for the 4 year conclusion. In fact history suggests just the opposite.
FDR who was the closest President in politically leanings to communism that this county has every had up until Obama was elected 4 times. Now granted the law has been changed, but with Obama's support by the MSM Drive-Bys, and a possible super majority in 2010 there is a good possibility that the law will be changed allowing a President to govern for more than 2 terms. If the economy continues its downward spiral and America has a protacted recession or worst yet falls into a depression like in the 30s there would be a lot of support for a continued Obama presidency just like there was with FDR.
A long term Obama presidency would turn America into a Marxist repressive country.
Jeff
I have been reading your blog since the beginning. I have become increasingly distressed that you have seemed to change your stand on this issue. Maybe you simply do not understand the issue. I will scream it out at you. This is about the CONSTITUTION. I hope you heard that loud and clear.
It only takes a simple reading of
Obama Must Stand Up Now or Sit Down
By Dr. Edwin Vieira, Jr.
NewsWithViews.com
http://www.newswithviews.com/Vieira/edwin84.htm
to see what will happen to our country if an ineligible person were to attempt to take office of president. It is a legal nightmare. all american treaties end. all debt ends. all legal agreements end. chaos ensues.
As a Conservative you sure don't seem to understand. As a legal student you are in deep trouble. This issue is simple and very easy to understand. I am a democrat all my life and I see this as a crisis. you as a conservative should be much more up in arms over this situation then I am as a democrat. and now I have to suffer the pain of you posting that you want to look the other way and allow this fraud to be ignored. I hope you do not desert your clients so easily. I would be very hesitant to hire you as a lawyer.
Initially as I read your blogs I was very impressed by you and your writings. Now I am distressed.
The CONSTITUTION, is the American people bible. No matter what, we have to do everything to protect it. If this would happen in a third country, I would, maybe, understand the back-in-forth. But not in America. I was born with dual citizenship. I would never do anything to harm my country, but, also, I would be reluctant to do wrong, even if I am not anymore citizen of that country,to do harm. For our country's safety, is neccessary to be "pure "American,specially as President of the highest office of the world.
Yes, Leo--you must refuse to take no for an answer from anyone who is not legally empowered to refuse your demands for justice.
Your early research regarding the Socialist party candidate's having been bounced from the ticket of four other U.S. states, plus certain other official statements of nonfeasance shows me that the Secretary of State of New Jersey was clearly mailing it in prior to the election. I somehow also suspect she was rudely awakened by your inquiry. She was obviously thrown into a tizzy by your subsequent timely lawsuit.
Your lawsuit very effectively highlights the indisputable fact that every single person who has ever sought to establish a definition for the term "natural born citizen" as it is used in the U.S. Constitution was doing nothing other than offering their personal opinion. In such an environment, well-reasoned arguments like yours should be allowed to breathe freely until a correspondingly well-reasoned and legally-rendered decision is handed down.
We need a ruling from the U.S. Supreme Court on this question, once and for all, so that the way will be cleared for all Americans to provide proper patriotic support for the next President of the United States, whoever that person may be.
I am divided on this issue.
On one hand, I agree Jeff, that we should just stand back and let it happen with knowing confidence that a realization and shift will naturally occurr, as it has proven throughout our history.
However, on the other hand, I understand that that is a huge gamble considering what this president-elect is determined to do...and behind the scenes is the most disconcerting...
Either way, though, America and Americans have journeyed for over two centuries through things that seemed impossible odds and we came out successful. Too many to list, but our history proves it is true.
There are millions of us out there. Millions of us are sitting at those "kitchen tables" and discussing a plan of action, and I would venture to guess that many who voted for him, will be faced with a huge realization in the not so distant future, and may be joining the cause in 2010 and 2012.
We cannot "move on". This is the proper response for a normal election in which the country is divided or ideological issues (e.g. Bush vs. Gore). In this case, the issues are constitutional. If Obama is not constitutiionally elegible, MUCH harm can be done over and above the usual lawmaking and whatnot surrounding the ideology. Edwin Viera does an outstanding job of listing NUMEROUS problems if the president were an imposter. My major concern is that if BHO is not eligible, someone out there knows that already. That someone would be in a position to perpetrate the mother of all extortions. We are in grave and immediage peril. This is not just a "technicality" of interest to only constitutional scholars.
Gay rights protesters disrupt Sunday service
People threw fliers, shouted slogans at Delta Township church
Kathleen Lavey • klavey@lsj.com • November 12, 2008 • From Lansing State Journal
DELTA TWP. - A radical gay rights group is claiming responsibility for a protest Sunday at Mount Hope Church in Delta Township.
Advertisement
Protesters who entered the Creyts Road church along with worshippers surprised the congregation when they stood up during the service, threw fliers at churchgoers and shouted slogans such as "It's OK to be gay," and "Jesus was a homo," according to David Williams, communications director at the church. His father, Dave Williams, is the church's longtime pastor. He was not preaching at the church Sunday.
Another group of protesters demonstrated outside the church at the same time as the indoor protest.
The Eaton County Sheriff's Department responded to the scene Sunday but no arrests were made.
In a released statement, David Williams said churchgoers were unclear as to the purpose of the demonstration.
A Lansing group affiliated with a radical gay organization known as Bash Back, formed to protest the Republican and Democratic national conventions earlier this year, put out a call on the Internet on Oct. 7 for activists to come to a "radical queer convergence" in Lansing on Nov. 7-9.
A posting on its MySpace page declared the convergence a "fierce success."
Fire alarm pulled
According to a report on the Bash Back group's news site, protesters inside the church pulled a fire alarm, unfurled a banner from the church balcony, shouted and threw fliers to the worshippers.
Outside the church, protesters carried picket signs and an upside-down, pink cross.
The conservative RightMichigan Web site posted an account of the incident Monday, and a number of conservative bloggers had picked up on the item by Tuesday.
Williams said the church had received 80 to 85 e-mails and phone calls by Tuesday, "from churches and individuals around the country to express their concern and general disgust for what happened on Sunday."
Nick De Leeuw of RightMichigan said he got his account of the incident from a church member who was there.
However, he said, the photo along with his report - of protesters dressed in black with their faces covered by pink, Middle-Eastern style headcoverings - was not from the protest at the church but from an earlier Bash Back protest elsewhere.
No arrests made
Mount Hope Church, affiliated with the Assemblies of God denomination, teaches followers that homosexuality is a sin.
However, "Mount Hope Church strives to follow Jesus' example of loving the sinner but not the sin," Williams said.
The Eaton County Sheriff's Department got a call regarding the protest at about noon Sunday, said Lt. Jeff Warder.
Warder said protesters outside the church left peacefully when someone from the team of pastors came outside and told them they were not welcome on church property.
Warder said deputies did not handle the protest inside the building.
No arrests were made.
In New York City on Tuesday, the conservative Catholic League said it would ask Michigan Attorney General Mike Cox to investigate the protest.
Typically, the sheriff's investigation would be turned over to the county prosecutor if the sheriff felt charges were warranted, said Matt Frendewey, spokesman for the attorney general's office. He said it would be rare for the attorney general's office to get involved in such a case.
===============================
The left wing extreme or not now feels empowered to attempt to suppress the freedom of worship, rightful assembly and freedom of speeech of all of those who oppose them.
What is worse is that the law authorities will not oppose this as seen from the above example and what has been going on in Missouri.
Obama = Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Fidel, Parone, etc.
The only solution to the Obama problem is for the "Producers" in our society to do what they did in Atlas Shrugged and that is to go on strike, close their plants and businesses and just walk away.
This will shut down the country and leave it in the hands of the "Robbers" in our country.
There will no longer be any wealth to redistribute and Obama's house of cards will fall.
Then after Obama and his people are removed from power the "Producers" can return.
Hey Jeff (and anyone else who is willing to respond) --
I have a random question for you that is totally off-topic. I want to see how much you dislike Obama and like or dislike Bush. Most Americans agree that Bush has been a bad president. Maybe he's getting blamed for too much, though. Obama is a liberal, no question. But maybe he is not going to be a total disaster.
In a hypothetical match-up of Bush vs. Obama (this year), who would you vote for, assuming a 3rd term was allowed and Bush managed to be nominated (but everything else is the same)?
If the answer is Bush, were there any democratic candidates from this cycle whom you'd have chosen over Bush? If so, which one(s)?
If the answer is Obama, were there any democratic candidates from this cycle whom you'd have chosen Bush over? Which one(s)?
the U.S. Supreme Court held that under the 14th Amendment, a child born in the United States--to parents who are citizens subjects of a foreign power who live in the US (other than diplomats, etc.)--is, in fact, a US citizen from birth. In other words, that child is a "natural born citizen."
Furthermore, there are several additional State and US Supreme Court cases that rule similarly to Wong Kim Ark, all of which find that a child born in the United States to foreign national parents (other than diplomats, etc.) are considered natural born citizens.
In both defenses of yours here, Jeff, with all due respect, it is your assumption of same intent terminology and wording than actual original intent under the Constitution. You skip over the repealing of the "Natural Born" portion in later wording...for citizen sake only, rather than presenting what is referenced from the intent wording directly written in concern of those qualifications for the Presidency. Two different situations. And your cases were never challenged on that basis since they had never attempted to run for the Presidency.
I don't know if my comment went through, so I'll repeat myself:
Leo: Keep up the good work.
Jeff: I was ready to write that you are conflating citizenship with natural born citizenship, but others more worthy than I have done a better job of it. As stated, the Constitution trumps any act of Congress. Here is a link to an article that explains somewhat the intent of the Founders with regard to natural born citizenship and loyalty:
http://www.hillsdale.edu/news/imprimis/archive/issue.asp?year=2008&month=07
Thanks for providing us with one place where we can find the most recent news about this issue.
I do agree with John Galt about the dangers that an Obama presidency poses to the country. With a compliant Congress or, failing that, further success with well-organized minions wielding the powers of vote and donor fraud, he can do a lot of damage. He can change the Constitution. He can change the nature of the Supreme Court. He can make himself president for life.
As for why he's been allowed to get this far, consider today's news over at powerlineblog about his contacts with Hamas, before and after the election.
My goodness, people, there is no towel being thrown in here -- I merely said that, once everything is said and done, should things not come out as we'd like them to, I hope that the same passion is put forth to advance conservative ideals.
That's all. To say that I have somehow forsaken my ideology isn't quite fair, people.
Dear Jeff -- I have come to appreciate your insight and thoughtful analysis, where you always try to be objective. However, I am becoming more discouraged with your recent tone, that is, saying that perhaps we should accept the Obama presidency, no matter how illegal it may be, and just deal with it, and "make the best of it".
That, my friend, is a tone of surrender. What are we without laws? We have built our nation on the Constitution. While I have low expectations of this suit as well, given all the corruption in our government, we still, as citizens, have to take a stand. To surrender while our country is taken over illegally by a criminal is unthinkable. Imagine if we did that in our early days? We owe it to the people who built this country, who steadfastly held by our laws, to stand by our laws as well. The moment we give up on our constitution, will be the day that we descend into the depths of hell, from which we will not emerge.
Please Jeff, don't give up, don't surrender. It is what Obama wants, and you are playing into his hand. Americans simply do not give up, especially when truth and justice are to be fought for.
This is all good. Go Leo, go. Go Jeff, go. This great blogging and a wonderful exercise in critical thought. Let the passions flow. The integrity of our Constitution and Nation hang in the balance. The voltage should and must run high!
What matters: more and more Americans are tuning in to this issue over the web. More and more are circulating to Leo's site, and here, to America's Right. The emerging gestalt is Obama owes us unobstructed incontrovertible evidence of his bona fides to be POTUS. That he will not and pretends to be superior to his fellow citizens is the real issue which both offends and alarms each American who comes to understand what is really happening here.
We can get lost in trying to presuppose the outcome of Leo's case. It's impossible for us to know. So we should and must stretch our thinking and test our suppositions, but do so responsibly, as Jeff has done.
Let us pray Leo's action gets a full and proper hearing before SCOTUS and the apparent bad faith at the clerking level is successfully overcome.
All we want is the truth. All we want is good faith and honesty from Barack Obama.
Why does he deny us his honesty and good faith?
We must get to the bottom of this!!!
Hi Jeff,
Do you have any information on the new lawsuit filed by Philip Berg? It's my understanding last week he filed a claim against Obama in Washington D.C. alleging Obama was ineligble to receive compensation as a U.S. Senator on the grounds he isn't qualified to hold the office. He is trying a different tactic in hopes of getting the information he seeks. The last time I checked there was nothing on Berg's site concerning the new action.
Sometimes there can be no middle ground, Jeff. How can this issue not be clearcut? To sidestep, or ignore, or make insignificant a challenge to the integrity of our constitution would ultimately nullify the constitution. No man, no office should be above the law...or inquiry re' the law being adhered to...no matter what position,nationality, color, religious belief whatever....that is what equality and freedom is about.
"all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." quote from Edmund Burke.
It will be very hard to wait four years for the chance to right a wrong. Andrea.
Please people. Start CALLING your congressmen and senators. I just called mine, and asked for them to please look into this and demand the original birth certificate. The more calls they get, the more they will find it hard to ignore us. Please call today.
CLERK'S OFFICE CONTINUES SABOTAGE OF NJ CITIZEN STAY APPLICATION FOR 08 ELECTION
http://www.blogtext.org/naturalborncitizen/
Apologies if anybody thinks I was too hard on Jeff. When we spoke last night, he told me it was his duty to hit me hard on the facts and law. He punched, and I counterpunched, and in this way people can see that we are both seriously digging into the issues.
I have told Jeff that I didnt like some of his wording, and I responded with strong language.
I respect Jeff, and I hope Jeff respects me. Im sure we both understand that this is no time for being hurt or insulted, but rather it's time for action.
NOW! People need to understand that this case is under siege from the Clerk at SCOTUS. He's gone too far to turn back and Im convinced he will never pass this on to Justice Clarence Thomas unless Justice Thomas hears about it and asks for it himself, and even then, I would imagine that Justice Thomas will have to fight to get my application for a stay and also to make sure that the application he receives is actually the application I originally submitted.
Please see my latest and make some calls to SCOTUS and write some letters to Justices Thomas, Roberts, Scalia and Alito and the rest.
Thank you,
Leo Donofrio
Again, if any one of you knew the work I've been doing behind the scenes, the hours I've been putting in writing letters and doing legal research, things to which I could never put my name, you may think twice about calling me some sort of traitor to the cause.
With Donofrio, I'm merely pointing out valid arguments against his valid arguments. That's how it works.
Absolutely, positively, the Constitution MUST be upheld. Unfortunately, if the Supreme Court does not want to hear these cases, we're up shit creek without a paddle. Barack Obama's above-the-law mentality keeps me awake at night. I cannot stand that he got away with having the relationships he had, the ideology he has, the questions still remaining, and the campaign finance problems. It's disgusting.
However, we cannot haphazardly approach this issue and expect the road to be paved with daisies and pansies and rose petals -- I pressured Berg about standing, and he got pissed at me for hounding him, and worked his way around it probably as best he could with his "sliding scale" approach. Here, I pressure Donofrio about his approach to the Natural Born Citizen clause, he certainly is pissed at me, and with any luck he'll work around it nicely.
There is no packing it in. Just because I'm not hanging on Berg's every word does not mean that the research and letter-writing does not go on. Just because I give Donofrio a hard time does not mean that I do not want him to succeed.
For those of you who find it necessary to insult my patriotism or question my dedication to the ideas and ideals of those imperfect men who risked everything for our fledgling nation, I encourage you to read more of the materials on this Web site.
Stop the Obama Constitutional Crisis
Sign the Petition : 93,290 Letters and Emails Sent So Far
http://www.rallycongress.com/constitutional-qualification/1244/stop-obama-constitutional-crisis
Thank You and God Bless the USA!
This issue of Obama's citizenship and alleged reception of foreign campaign donations is a spike driving as near to the heart of the American Constitution and fundamental integrity of her Democratic process as anoy other I have seen in recent history (another good example would be warrantless wiretaps against U.S. citizens, an equally injurious unconstitutionality).
We owe it to the preservation of Democracy and National Security to call for the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation to stand up to their jurisdictional mandate and investigate the allegations of Obama's alleged non-citizenship, receipt of foreign campaign contributions (possibly from known terrorists), and acceptace (or "bundling") of campaign contributions in excess of the federally-allowed limit per donor.
You can make a difference, and you can do it quickly.
Sign out petition here:
http://sites.google.com/site/acpnshome
and mail it to the addresses given on our website.
We can civilly request the reasonable and necessary investigation to put these issues to rest before the Inauguration, but only if we get the word out, and follow through by ACTING to sign the petition and MAILING it in quickly.
Remember, there are strength in numbers, and there are roughly 48% of disenfranchised voters who should be willing and able to support this cause, or else you have no soap box to stand on when the window of opportunity has passed, and this man has been inaugurated, despite an allegedly illegitimate candidacy, and illegal campaign financing.
All are welcome.
Best Regards,
The Management
American Citizens for Preservation of National Security
Jeff, THANK YOU for everything you do on this blog. And for whatever you're doing behind the scenes.
It's easy for many of us to post an anonymous comment or snipe from the sidelines. But to stand up, to speak out, and to put your name on it takes courage. Especially in these days of obots.
You have a lot of fired up readers, Jeff. Please tell us to whom we can complain to demand an accounting of Obama's campaign finances. Do we complain to our state officials? To the DOJ? To the FEC?
There isn't much that most of us can do about the eligibility for POTUS issue. But it seems like most of us could sure make a stink about the foreign campaign contributions if we knew where to direct the complaints.
I declare "SOUR GRAPES" on the readers of this blog. I came here through a link on a PUMA site (am fascinated by that movement) and am frankly disturbed.
#1- The 14th Amendment is PART of the Constitution. It doesn't matter what the framers thought they meant by "natural born citizen," because it has been superseded by the 14th Amendment. That's the way the Constitutional Cookie crumbles. Sometimes in your favor, sometimes against.
#2- I have seen ZERO evidence presented that PE Obama was not born in Hawaii at a time after Hawaii was made the 50th (and most beautiful) state. ZERO. So, you can worry and fret and complain, but until you can actually PROVE otherwise, you are SOL and I don't mean Elaine Chao, the Secretary of Labor or Howard Radzley, the Solicitor for Labor.
#3- McCain was born in Panama. With the Canal Zone being a US territory, he's more of a foreign born citizen (using a strict definition of Art 2, Sec 1).
This makes me very sad. Defend the country, but maybe it's time to work WITH the system rather than just trying to work the system over.
Lot's voltage around here. "Don't taze me bro!"
Hey everybody. Do you see the ugly beast of Unelected Bureaucratic Obstructionism rearing it's ugly head in the Donofrio case???
To the ramparts!! To the battle all!!
Do not let unelected bureaucrats obstruct. They are but Tyrants in our midst, the bane of Free People everywhere!! A pox upon them all!!
Another Berg lawsuit, US District Court for the District of Columbia, 1:08-cv-01933-RWR, is up on PACER
Heres the way I see it, and we all should. 1) Do we believe in the constitution or not? If you do, we need this fight to continue. 2) Do we want the constitution to continue? If you answer is we need to fight.
What if, the SCOTUS refuses to hear this on a constitutional basis, it would seem to me they could be arrested. Sounds dumb I know, but there one and only job is uphold the constitution, and if they do not, then there enemies from within the United States, and of course the forefathers thought of that as well.
If we allow this issue to pass, what other constitutional amendments will be breached, until we finally have no constitution as we know it, at all. I can already see Obama railing againt the 1st amendment with the "Fairness Doctrine" being enforced. We already know he's against the 2nd amendment, as well all understand it. After all, in the Chicago, they aren't allowed to have handguns, I'm not saying the Chicago proper, but I know there are cities who don't allow them.
He obviously doesn't like the 16th amendment, this amendment (income tax) never levied a new tax, it only confirmed what was already being done. I can see him breaking that down as well. On the 13th amendment (as it was originally drafted), I'm sure he wouldn't go for that either. This amendment was originally drafted to not allow lawyers/attorneys to hold the office of president of VP. Will it be much longer before the 4th amendment is messed with, we'll be found quilty without a proper court procedure, or how about the 5th amendment, will be able to not incriminate ourselfs any longer. People, I'm just touching the tip of the iceberg here, and nothing seems impossible with this guy, and not in a good way.
Just who would have as he chief of staff that goes around mailing dead fish to people? Is that the kind of administration we want. If we don't fight, thats exactly what we'll get. Keep us informed Jeff on all these issues, and hopefully, if the SCOTUS does turn down the Donofrio case, you'll still keep us informed.
Jeff,
Keep up the great work that you do for us. Your website is fair and balanced and your daily compositions are very well written. I for one can not thank you enough for all that you have taught me about law and our Constitution.
Please don't ever get discouraged by the negative posters that visit your blog; America's Right". It is apparent that these folks really don't appreciate what you are trying to do for America which i'm sure takes up countless hours of your own time every day but i'll bet that your entire family supports you. Good Job!
Someday you are going to make a fine lawyer or maybe even a finer judge.
Email addresses for FEC commissioners.
CommissionerWalther@fec.gov
CommissionerBauerly@fec.gov
CommissionerHunter@fec.gov
CommissionerPetersen@fec.gov
pot, there are some differences to your theories, and not the tin foil hat types. McCain was born on a U.S. military installation, which, like U.S. embassies, are sovereign U.S. territory. Second, there is a contention that Barack Obama may have been born in Hawaii (we don't know, we have not seen his vault birth certificate), but any citizenship rights would have been relinquished when he was adopted by his Indonesian stepfather, since dual citizenship was not permitted in Indonesia. All of these questions could have been avoided had Obama been forthright and come clean from the beginning.
Will never understand the Supreme Court's blatant un-American stand on this issue. The Supreme Court is hiding behind all avenues and quirks in the law to give Obama a pass, once again. The Supreme Court will not bend one law to protect Americans and our Constitution, but Obama can break every law in the book and can get by with it. If our laws cannot be enforced, why do we need a Supreme Court, not to mention the law makers. Just adopt the "old west" philosphy and do what you want to when you want to. Why should I follow any laws of this land when these laws will not protect me?
I agree with another blogger on this site....bring on the riots...you can't win a war without fighting! And if the Supreme Court will not and cannot uphold our Constitution, abolish the Supreme Court altogether!
Taking the high road that "everything will be alright" is naive and stupid! Obama is suckering us in as I speak and as soon as he thinks he has our trust...KABOOM! He is dangerous and should not even be in this country, let alone POTUS.
The Supreme Court Justices should "Ask NOT what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country". They need to speak up and DO THEIR JOB OR STEP DOWN!
To Leo D and Jeff S,
Both of you make an interesting case.
Leo's argument is the that the 14th Amendment does NOT give 'NATURAL-BORN' status to subjects given 'Citizenship' by this amendment.
His argument is that 'Natural-Born' is above and beyond just mere 'Citizenship'. Which is specifically stated in Article II of the Constitution.
Therefore, Obama would not be eligible regardless of what his Vault Birth Certificate states, due to the fact that his father was a Kenyan and had a UK citizenship. Thereby giving Obama dual citizenship. Which even Obama acknowledges.
Leo's argument is the specific writing, word for word, in both the Constitution and 14th Amendment.
And absent any previous Supreme Court ruling about this specific wording regarding the Constitution and the 14th Amendment, it is his argument that the Secretary of State in NJ had a duty to find out and get proper ruling from the Judicial court BEFORE allowing Obama to be on the ballots.
At least that's what I understand to be his argument.
Additionally, Leo's argument is that any previous rulings in regards to the specificity of the 14th Amendment is not relevant because there were no previous rulings in the Judicial Courts dealing specifically with this issue.
Specifically, 'Citizenship' does not equate 'Natural-Born', therefore, it is the duty of SCOTUS to rule on this issue because the Article II of the Constitution requires 'Natural Born Citizenship' as a specific qualifier.
Mr. Donofrio, if I am mistaken in my understanding of you argument, please do correct me.
I'm just giving you my understanding of your argument.
As for Jeff, I appreciate your points of view and your Devil's Advocate arguments. It's insightful and informative. Please keep it up. I'm sure everyone appreciates your time and effort in understand both sides of the issue.
At minimum, I would think that a lot of people gained knowledge of things that even schools and classes don't teach regarding out Nation. And knowledge is good.
the U.S. Supreme Court held that under the 14th Amendment, a child born in the United States--to parents who are citizens subjects of a foreign power who live in the US (other than diplomats, etc.)--is, in fact, a US citizen from birth. In other words, that child is a "natural born citizen."
NO I disagree with your final conclusion. I would remove the world natural. just leave it as citizen. Being a citizen from birth does NOT NECESSARILY MEAN NATURAL BORN CITIZEN.
A citizen can be born a citizen or born a natural born citizen. there is a difference. I would not confir an ability to be president upon someone who was born in usa to 2 foreigners who happen to be here at the time of birth. citizen might be OK but not President.
I'm wondering the effectiveness of this lawsuit. As a lay person only seems like it is directed at the Secretary of State. If his lawsuit is upheld, then at most would it invalidate the New Jersey votes? It would be the NJ Secretary of State what would have to validate Obama's eligibility. As we have all seen, he has NOT been forthcoming with requests to see his BC, if it even exists!
Anonymous-November 12, 2008 4:07PM disagrees with the statement that the U.S. Supreme Court held that under the 14th Amendment, a child born in the United States--to parents who are citizens subjects of a foreign power who live in the US (other than diplomats, etc.)--is, in fact, a US citizen from birth. In other words, that child is a "natural born citizen."
You might disagree with it, but that's what the Court held. True - the Court was not considering it in terms of Presidential eligiblity - but the Court was considering the citizenship (and nature of citizenship) of the individual born in the US to foreign parents.
You say, Being a citizen from birth does NOT NECESSARILY MEAN NATURAL BORN CITIZEN. A citizen can be born a citizen or born a natural born citizen. there is a difference.
But you cite no law to support this argument. In fact, a child born in the US (to parents other than diplomats) is, automatically, a natural born citizen. A child born outside the US is DEEMED a "natural born citizen" under certain circumstances prescribed by statute (which enabled McCain to qualify as "natural born").
You state I would not confir an ability to be president upon someone who was born in usa to 2 foreigners who happen to be here at the time of birth. citizen might be OK but not President.
I respect your opinion - but that position has no basis in the law. Thus, if you want that to be the rule, you should work to amend the Constitution.
"Being a citizen from birth does NOT NECESSARILY MEAN NATURAL BORN CITIZEN."
Uh, that is EXACTLY what a natural born citizen is, buddy.
You don't even have to be born in the USA to be a natural born citizen. If you are a citizen from birth, you are natural born. Period.
McCain was born off the reservation in Panama proper to two American parents.
Obama, wherever he was born, was born to two nationalities, American and Kenyan, and was of joint nationality at birth.
Article II rules. Obama may be an American citizen, but he was not natural born of American parents.
Jeff,
I am with you on the looking forward aspect of conservatism in the future but for now I am in the mood to play some poker with Leo.I have been active in the immigration wars here on the streets of Houston and I believe the amnesty-pushing Obama and the Jacobins will drown out conservatism hopelessly by legalized foreigners allowed to take over our nation via demography and vote Democratic forever.If the Constitution can be preserved via a lawsuit with a retired attorney and we ride this wave for a month it'll be worth it.We can still return to organizing behind a rejuvenated Republican party with guts.This guy could be dangerous so we have to back what seems the best hope for now.The whole agenda is about watering down the meaning of citizenship and creating economic sectors with no blood/soil connections merely pumping the economy with bodies who have no respect for this nation or her laws.
Absolutely impressive and well written!
SCOTUS CLERK'S OFFICE CONTINUED SABOTAGE OF NJ CITIZEN STAY APPLICATION FOR 08 ELECTION - YOUR HELP
"UPDATED 7:28 PM: True to his form , but not to his word, US Supreme Court, Stay Clerk, Danny Bickell, has not updated the Docket to reflect that my case has come directly from a New Jersey Supreme Court order denying emergency relief. Mr. Bickell informed me that he has kept all reference to the NJ Supreme Court order off the Docket for the same reason he initially did not feed the Emergency Stay Application to Justice Souter back on Nov. 3rd, a semantical falsehood concocted by Mr. Bickell and/or his superiors."
http://www.blogtext.org/naturalborncitizen/
I love reading all posts and comments! This thing with Bickall is intriguing...anyone know of a good P.I. willing to work pro bono? My guess is someone "encouraged" him
to gum up the filings.
Jeff,
The actual order handed down in United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898) makes no mention of "natural born citizen". You might want to try digging up some case law that actually supports your position, eh?
"The evident intention, and the necessary effect, of the submission of this case to the decision of the court upon the facts agreed by the parties, were to present for determination the single question, stated at the beginning of this opinion, namely, whether a child born in the United States, of parents of Chinese descent, who, at the time of his birth, are subjects of the emperor of China, but have a permanent domicile and residence in the United States, and are there carrying on business, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the emperor of China, becomes at the time of his birth a citizen of the United States. For the reasons above stated, this court is of opinion that the question must be answered in the affirmative. "
New lawsuit:
http://www.therightsideoflife.com/?p=878
I think Donofrio makes the case.
The Founders defined themselves as being not natural born by holding themselves separate from the identity of natural born Citizens set forth in Article II. They grandfathered themselves in by being citizens at the time of the Constitution's adoption. No citizen alive today meets the grandfathering standard.
Any citizen born into a different or split nationality or citizenship is no different from the Founders. They too are not natural born and the conditions of grandfathering extending an exception to natural born status under Article II now rests in perpetuity with the decedents who witness the Constitution's adopting.
This case is posted at: http://grou.ps/zapem/home
It has the Donofrio blog, the audio tapes and articles are on the forums.
Forum update is here: http://zapem.aforumfree.com/leo-c-donofrio-vs-sos-nj-f5/11-19-449pm-full-conference-scheduled-with-scotus-t20.htm
This case is posted at: http://grou.ps/zapem/home
It has the Donofrio blog, the audio tapes and articles are on the forums.
Forum update is here: http://zapem.aforumfree.com/leo-c-donofrio-vs-sos-nj-f5/11-19-449pm-full-conference-scheduled-with-scotus-t20.htm
Hello Mr. Schreiber,
I am not sure if you are aware of the months-long work done by a man who has SCIENTIFIC PROOF that the Obama birth certificate on the Internet is a fraud. Perhaps you already have this evidence and plan to present it at the hearing. If not, then I urge you to look at it (a bit long - but worth it!!)and use this evidence in your arguments/presentations.
There is a LOT of hope! Please go to the site below and view the evidence there!
The Obama birth certificate on the liberal left websites is a fake! If you want to see absolute, scientific evidence and proof that the Hawaiian BC is a complete fabrication and fraud, go to the following link:
Polarik Blog Townhall.com
Two things.
1. There are lots of images posted on the site so it may take a few moments to load.
2. When you click on the link, you may need to scroll down a bit to start viewing the information.
Pass this link around to everyone!
Mr Schreiber, you are incorrect in your statement that if you are born on United States soil, you are a Natural Born Citizen. Case in Point. Hugo Chavez's son is born on US Soil, he is NOT a natural born citizen, and cannot be eligible to be PROTUS. I rest my case.
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