Gaining Perspective on Surrick, Standing, and Berg v. Obama
Tomorrow morning, Philip Berg will file a Petition for Writ of Certiorari in Washington in hopes that his lawsuit challenging Barack Obama's constitutional eligibility to serve as president of the United States will be heard, on its merits, by the United States Supreme Court.
The case was dismissed from USDC Eastern District of Pennsylvania by the Hon. R. Barclay Surrick on grounds that Berg lacked standing to sue.
A few days ago, I linked to this article following one of the recent updates on the Berg v. Obama case. After careful consideration, I believe it should be reproduced here in full.
Many people have asked about the decision handed down by Judge Surrick, and asked about the standing issue in particular. As of yet, there has been no better-researched, more comprehensive piece on the disposition of this case -- this site included. So, if you'd like a better understanding of this case as it proceeds through the court system, take a look at this fabulous piece of writing. It is a lengthy article (hence my decision to display it in a smaller size), but it worth it for anyone who wishes to gain perspective on Berg's case.
-- Jeff
Obama Must Stand Up Now or Step Down
By Dr. Edwin Vieira, Jr.
NewsWithViews.comAmerica is facing potentially the gravest constitutional crisis in her history. Barack Obama must either stand up in a public forum and prove, with conclusive documentary evidence, that he is “a natural born Citizen” of the United States who has not renounced his American citizenship—or he must step down as the Democratic Party’s candidate for President of the United States—preferably before the election is held, and in any event before the Electoral College meets. Because, pursuant to the Constitution, only “a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States at the time of the Adoption of th[e] Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President” (Article II, Section 1, Clause 4). And Obama clearly was not “a Citizen of the United States at the time of the Adoption of th[e] Constitution.”
Whether the evidence will show that Obama is, or is not, “a natural born Citizen” who has never renounced his American citizenship is an open question. The arguments on both sides are as yet speculative. But Obama’s stubborn refusal to provide what he claims is “his own” country with conclusive proof on that score compels the presumption that he knows, or at least strongly suspects, that no sufficient evidence in his favor exists. After all, he is not being pressed to solve a problem in quantum physics that is “above his pay grade,” but only asked to provide the public with the original copy of some official record that establishes his citizenship. The vast majority of Americans could easily do so. Why will Obama not dispel the doubts about his eligibility—unless he can not?
Now that Obama’s citizenship has been seriously questioned, the burden of proof rests squarely on his shoulders. The “burden of establishing a delegation of power to the United States * * * is upon those making the claim.” Bute v. Illinois, 333 U.S. 640, 653 (1948). And if each of the General Government’s powers must be proven (not simply presumed) to exist, then every requirement that the Constitution sets for any individual’s exercise of those powers must also be proven (not simply presumed) to be fully satisfied before that individual may exercise any of those powers. The Constitution’s command that “[n]o Person except a natural born Citizen * * * shall be eligible to the Office of President” is an absolute prohibition against the exercise of each and every Presidential power by certain unqualified individuals. Actually (not simply presumptively or speculatively) being “a natural born Citizen” is the condition precedent sine qua non for avoiding this prohibition. Therefore, anyone who claims eligibility for “the Office of President” must, when credibly challenged, establish his qualifications in this regard with sufficient evidence.
In disposing of the lawsuit Berg v. Obama, which squarely presents the question of Obama’s true citizenship, the presiding judge complained that Berg “would have us derail the democratic process by invalidating a candidate for whom millions of people voted and who underwent excessive vetting during what was one of the most hotly contested presidential primary in living memory.” This is exceptionally thin hogwash. A proper judicial inquiry into Obama’s eligibility for “the Office of President” will not deny his supporters a “right” to vote for him—rather, it will determine whether they have any such “right” at all. For, just as Obama’s “right” to stand for election to “the Office of President” is contingent upon his being “a natural born Citizen,” so too are the “rights” of his partisans to vote for him contingent upon whether he is even eligible for that “Office.” If Obama is ineligible, then no one can claim any “right” to vote for him. Indeed, in that case every American who does vote has a constitutional duty to vote against him.
The judge in Berg v. Obama dismissed the case, not because Obama has actually proven that he is eligible for “the Office of President,” but instead because, simply as a voter, Berg supposedly lacks “standing” to challenge Obama’s eligibility:
regardless of questions of causation, the grievance remains too generalized to establish the existence of an injury in fact. * ** [A] candidate’s ineligibility under the Natural Born Citizen Clause does not result in an injury in fact to voters. By extension, the theoretical constitutional harm experienced by voters does not change as the candidacy of an allegedly ineligible candidate progresses from the primaries to the general election.This pronouncement does not rise to the level of hogwash.
First, the Constitution mandates that “[t]he judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution” (Article III, Section 2, Clause 1). Berg’s suit plainly “aris[es] under th[e] Constitution,” in the sense of raising a critical constitutional issue. So the only question is whether his suit is a constitutional “Case[ ].” The present judicial test for whether a litigant’s claim constitutes a constitutional “Case[ ]” comes under the rubric of “standing”—a litigant with “standing” may proceed; one without “standing” may not. “Standing,” however, is not a term found anywhere in the Constitution. Neither are the specifics of the doctrine of “standing,” as they have been elaborated in judicial decision after judicial decision, to be found there. Rather, the test for “standing” is almost entirely a judicial invention.
True enough, the test for “standing” is not as ridiculous as the judiciary’s so-called “compelling governmental interest test,” which licenses public officials to abridge individuals’ constitutional rights and thereby exercise powers the Constitution withholds from those officials, which has no basis whatsoever in the Constitution, and which is actually anti-constitutional. Neither is the doctrine of “standing” as abusive as the “immunities” judges have cut from whole cloth for public officials who violate their constitutional “Oath[s] or Affirmation[s], to support this Constitution” (Article VI, Clause 3)—in the face of the Constitution’s explicit limitation on official immunities (Article I, Section 6, Clause 1). For the Constitution does require that a litigant must present a true “Case[ ].” Yet, because the test for “standing” is largely a contrivance of all-too-fallible men and women, its specifics can be changed as easily as they were adopted, when they are found to be faulty. And they must be changed if the consequences of judicial ignorance, inertia, and inaction are not to endanger America’s constitutional form of government. Which is precisely the situation here, inasmuch as the purported “election” of Obama as President, notwithstanding his ineligibility for that office, not only will render illegitimate the Executive Branch of the General Government, but also will render impotent its Legislative Branch (as explained below).
Second, the notion upon which the judge in Berg v. Obama fastened—namely, that Berg’s “grievance remains too generalized to establish the existence of an injury in fact,” i.e., if everyone is injured or potentially injured then no one has “standing”—is absurd on its face.To be sure, no one has yet voted for Obama in the general election. But does that mean that no one in any group smaller than the general pool of America’s voters in its entirety has suffered specific harm from Obama’s participation in the electoral process to date? Or will suffer such harm from his continuing participation? What about the Democrats who voted for Hillary Clinton as their party’s nominee, but were saddled with Obama because other Democrats voted for him even though they could not legally have done so if his lack of eligibility for “the Office of President” had been judicially determined before the Democratic primaries or convention? What about the States that have registered Obama as a legitimate candidate for President, but will have been deceived, perhaps even defrauded, if he is proven not to be “a natural born Citizen”? And as far as the general election is concerned, what about the voters among erstwhile Republicans and Independents who do not want John McCain as President, and therefore will vote for Obama (or any Democrat, for that matter) as “the lesser of two evils,” but who later on may have their votes effectively thrown out, and may have to suffer McCain’s being declared the winner of the election, if Obama’s ineligibility is established? Or what about those voters who made monetary contributions to Obama’s campaign, but may at length discover that their funds went, not only to an ineligible candidate, but to one who knew he was ineligible?
These obvious harms pale into insignificance, however, compared to the national disaster of having an outright usurper purportedly “elected” as “President.” In this situation, it is downright idiocy to claim, as did the judge in Berg v. Obama, that a “generalized” injury somehow constitutes no judicially cognizable injury at all. Self-evidently, to claim that a “generalized” grievance negates “the existence of an injury in fact” is patently illogical—for if everyone in any group can complain of the same harm of which any one of them can complain, then the existence of some harm cannot be denied; and the more people who can complain of that harm, the greater the aggregate or cumulative seriousness of the injury. The whole may not be greater than the sum of its parts; but it is at least equal to that sum! Moreover, for a judge to rule that no injury redressable in a court of law exists, precisely because everyone in America will be subjected to an individual posing as “the President” but who constitutionally cannot be (and therefore is not) the President, sets America on the course of judicially assisted political suicide. If Obama turns out to be nothing more than an usurper who has fraudulently seized control of the Presidency, not only will the Constitution have been egregiously flouted, but also this whole country could be, likely will be, destroyed as a consequence. And if this country is even credibly threatened with destruction, every American will be harmed—irretrievably, should the threat become actuality—including those who voted or intend to vote for Obama, who are also part of We the People. Therefore, in this situation, any and every American must have “standing” to demand—and must demand, both in judicial fora and in the fora of public opinion—that Obama immediately and conclusively prove himself eligible for “the Office of President.”
Utterly imbecilic as an alternative is the judge’s prescription in Berg v. Obama that,
[i]f, through the political process, Congress determines that citizens, voters, or party members should police the Constitution’s eligibility requirements for the Presidency, then it is free to pass laws conferring standing on individuals like [Berg]. Until that time, voters do not have standing to bring the sort of challenge that [Berg] attempts to bring * * * .Recall that this selfsame judge held that Berg has no constitutional “Case[ ]” because he has no “standing,” and that he has no “standing” because he has no “injury in fact,” only a “generalized” “grievance.” This purports to be a finding of constitutional law: namely, that constitutionally no “Case[ ]” exists. How, then, can Congress constitutionally grant “standing” to individuals such as Berg, when the courts (assuming the Berg decision is upheld on appeal) have ruled that those individuals have no “standing”? If “standing” is a constitutional conception, and the courts deny that “standing” exists in a situation such as this, and the courts have the final say as to what the Constitution means—then Congress lacks any power to contradict them. Congress cannot instruct the courts to exercise jurisdiction beyond what the Constitution includes within “the judicial Power.” Marbury v. Madison, 5 U.S. (1 Cranch) 137, 173-180 (1803).
In fact, though, a Congressional instruction is entirely unnecessary. Every American has what lawyers call “an implied cause of action”—directly under Article II, Section 1, Clause 4 of the Constitution—to require that anyone standing for “the Office of President” must verify his eligibility for that position, at least when serious allegations have been put forward that he is not eligible, and he has otherwise refused to refute those allegations with evidence that should be readily available if he is eligible. That “Case[ ]” is one the Constitution itself defines. And the Constitution must be enforceable in such a “Case[ ]” in a timely manner, by anyone who cares to seek enforcement, because of the horrendous consequences that will ensue if it is flouted.
What are some of those consequences?
First, if Obama is not “a natural born Citizen” or has renounced such citizenship, he is simply not eligible for “the Office of President” (Article II, Section 1, Clause 4). That being so, he cannot be “elected” by the voters, by the Electoral College, or by the House of Representatives (see Amendment XII). For neither the voters, nor the Electors, nor Members of the House can change the constitutional requirement, even by unanimous vote inter sese (see Article V). If, nonetheless, the voters, the Electors, or the Members of the House purport to “elect” Obama, he will be nothing but an usurper, because the Constitution defines him as such. And he can never become anything else, because an usurper cannot gain legitimacy if even all of the country aid, abets, accedes to, or acquiesces in his usurpation.
Second, if Obama dares to take the Presidential “Oath or Affirmation” of office, knowing that he is not “a natural born Citizen,” he will commit the crime of perjury or false swearing (see Article II, Section 1, Clause 7). For, being ineligible for “the Office of President, he cannot “faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States,” or even execute it at all, to any degree. Thus, his very act of taking the “Oath or Affirmation” will be a violation thereof! So, even if the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court himself looks the other way and administers the “Oath or Affirmation,” Obama will derive no authority whatsoever from it.
Third, his purported “Oath or Affirmation” being perjured from the beginning, Obama’s every subsequent act in the usurped “Office of President” will be a criminal offense under Title 18, United States Code, Section 242, which provides that:
[w]hoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States * * * shall be fined * * * or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily injury results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire, shall be fined * * * or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, * * *, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined * * * or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.Plainly enough, every supposedly “official” act performed by an usurper in the President’s chair will be an act “under color of law” that necessarily and unavoidably “subjects [some] person * * * to the deprivation of [some] rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution * * * of the United States”—in the most general case, of the constitutional “right[ ]” to an eligible and duly elected individual serving as President, and the corresponding constitutional “immunit[y]” from subjection to an usurper pretending to be “the President.”
Fourth, if he turns out to be nothing but an usurper acting in the guise of “the President,” Obama will not constitutionally be the “Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States” (see Article II, Section 2, Clause 1). Therefore, he will be entitled to no obedience whatsoever from anyone in those forces. Indeed, for officers or men to follow any of his purported “orders” will constitute a serious breach of military discipline—and in extreme circumstances perhaps even “war crimes.” In addition, no one in any civilian agency in the Executive Branch of the General Government will be required to put into effect any of Obama’s purported “proclamations,” “executive orders,” or “directives.”
Fifth, as nothing but an usurper (if he becomes one), Obama will have no conceivable authority “to make Treaties”, or to “nominate, and * * * appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the Supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not * * * otherwise provided for [in the Constitution]” (Article II, Section 2, Clause 2). And therefore any “Treaties” or “nominat[ions], and * * * appoint[ments]” he purports to “make” will be void ab initio, no matter what the Senate does, because the Senate can neither authorize an usurper to take such actions in the first place, nor thereafter ratify them. One need not be a lawyer to foresee what further, perhaps irremediable, chaos must ensue if an usurper, even with “the Advice and Consent of the Senate”, unconstitutionally “appoint[s] * * * Judges of the Supreme Court” whose votes thereafter make up the majorities that wrongly decide critical “Cases” of constitutional law.
Sixth, and perhaps most importantly, Congress can pass no law while an usurper pretends to occupy “the Office of President.” The Constitution provides that “[e]very Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States” (Article I, Section 7, Clause 2). Not to an usurper posturing as “the President of the United States,” but to the true and rightful President. If no such true and rightful President occupies the White House, no “Bill” will or can, “before it become a Law, be presented to [him].” If no “Bill” is so presented, no “Bill” will or can become a “Law.” And any purported “Law” that the usurper “approve[s]” and “sign[s],” or that Congress passes over the usurper’s “Objections,” will be a nullity. Thus, if Obama deceitfully “enters office” as an usurper, Congress will be rendered effectively impotent for as long as it acquiesces in his pretenses as “President.”
Seventh, if Obama does become an usurper posturing as “the President,” Congress cannot even impeach him because, not being the actual President, he cannot be “removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors” (see Article II, Section 4). In that case, some other public officials would have to arrest him—with physical force, if he would not go along quietly—in order to prevent him from continuing his imposture. Obviously, this could possibly lead to armed conflicts within the General Government itself, or among the States and the people.
Eighth, even did something approaching civil war not eventuate from Obama’s hypothetical usurpation, if the Establishment allowed Obama to pretend to be “the President,” and the people acquiesced in that charade, just about everything that was done during his faux “tenure in office” by anyone connected with the Executive Branch of the General Government, and quite a bit done by the Legislative Branch and perhaps the Judicial Branch as well, would be arguably illegitimate and subject to being overturned when a constitutional President was finally installed in office. The potential for chaos, both domestically and internationally, arising out of this systemic uncertainty is breathtaking.
The underlying problem will not be obviated if Obama, his partisans in the Democratic Party, and his cheerleaders and cover-up artists in the big media simply stonewall the issue of his (non)citizenship and contrive for him to win the Presidential election. The cat is already out of the bag and running all over the Internet. If he continues to dodge the issue, Obama will be dogged with this question every day of his purported “Presidency.” And inevitably the truth will out. For the issue is too simple, the evidence (or lack of it) too accessible. Either Obama can prove that he is “a natural born Citizen” who has not renounced his citizenship; or he cannot. And he will not be allowed to slip through with some doctored “birth certificate” generated long after the alleged fact. On a matter this important, Americans will demand that, before its authenticity is accepted, any supposed documentary evidence of that sort be subjected to reproducible forensic analyses conducted by reputable, independent investigators and laboratories above any suspicion of being influenced by or colluding with any public official, bureaucracy, political party, or other special-interest organization whatsoever.
Berg v. Obama may very well end up in the Supreme Court. Yet that ought to be unnecessary. For Obama’s moral duty is to produce the evidence of his citizenship sua sponte et instanter. Otherwise, he will be personally responsible for all the consequences of his refusal to do so.
Of course, if Obama knows that he is not “a natural born Citizen” who never renounced his American citizenship, then he also knows that he and his henchmen have perpetrated numerous election-related frauds throughout the country—the latest, still-ongoing one a colossal swindle targeting the American people as a whole. If that is the case, his refusal “to be a witness against himself” is perfectly explicable and even defensible on the grounds of the Fifth Amendment. Howsoever justified as a matter of criminal law, though, Obama’s silence and inaction will not obviate the necessity for him to prove his eligibility for “the Office of President.” The Constitution may permit him to “take the Fifth;” but it will not suffer him to employ that evasion as a means to usurp the Presidency of the United States.
Edwin Vieira, Jr., holds four degrees from Harvard: A.B. (Harvard College), A.M. and Ph.D. (Harvard Graduate School of Arts and Sciences), and J.D. (Harvard Law School).
For more than thirty years he has practiced law, with emphasis on constitutional issues. In the Supreme Court of the United States he successfully argued or briefed the cases leading to the landmark decisions Abood v. Detroit Board of Education, Chicago Teachers Union v. Hudson, and Communications Workers of America v. Beck, which established constitutional and statutory limitations on the uses to which labor unions, in both the private and the public sectors, may apply fees extracted from nonunion workers as a condition of their employment.




61 comments:
I have been hearing of the Constitutional Crisis, but this story puts it into perspective and makes it real! I am more scared than ever of the ominous effect it WILL have on this great country of ours!
I just don't see the US Supreme Court getting involved. If they don't what does it say about this country. Why can't a citizen question if a candidate is qualified under the Constitution to be the President of the United States. If the political parties are not going to do its up to the citizens to demand proof. This isn't some right wing... its an honest question that needs to be answered!
As has been stated before, by many people, if there is nothing to hide then why not release proof you are qualified as per the Constitution. Why did the Hawaii Governor seal his Birth Certificate? What about his grandmother's comments that she was in the delievery room in Kenya when he born.
Somebody needs to protect the Constitution and the rule of law!
Dr Edwin Vierira Jr. does not mention the obvious argument that Obama has for not responding to Berg's complaint.
Obama has said and still says that the birth certificate on his website that was verified as authentic proves that he was born in the U.S.
Sorry but the next step is Berg's or anyone elses to prove that that document is a forgery or does not qualify as valid proof of Obama's birth in the U.S.
As much as I want to see McCain win the election the proof of proving that Obama is not a U.S. citizen is entirely Bergs.
Obama has done at this point what I believe is sufficient. He has posted a copy of his BC on his website and had it verified.
The fact there is a connection between Factcheck.org who checked the authenticity of the BC and Annenberg is only circumstancical evidence that the BC may be a forgery and does not prove that the BC on Obama's site is not valid.
Obama at this point doesn't need to do squat.
Berg needs to prove that Obama's BC that Obama claims is valid and sufficient for Obama to be recognized as a person born in the U.S. is a forgery. Until he does that Obama doesn't need to do squat.
For Berg to claim that he has had people prove that the BC on Obama's sight is a forgery or that Obama needs to provide a vault copy of his BC is not sufficient. Berg needs to prove these contentions in a court of law.
If and when Berg can prove these contentions then it will up to Obama to come forth with another document this time one that is valid that proves that Obama was born in the U.S.
Obama says his BC as posted is valid and sufficient.
Berg needs to do more than say that it is a forgery and not sufficient. Berg needs to prove it.
Obama doesn't need to do squat at this point. The burden of proof or disproof as it were is entirely up to Berg at this point.
It seems a Kenyan aunt of Senator Obama has been located in Boston, MA.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article5042571.ece
According to Hawaii law any blood relative can obtain a vault birth certificate for anyone in their family. This was made clear in the news release of Governor Lingle when she "sealed it" from anyone except those with access that Hawaiin law permits.
It seems to me if there's any major news outlet with an ounce of integrity left they can make the impoverished aunt a wealthy woman in exchanged for her story accompanied by a copy of the vault birth certificate. Whoever scooped the story would go down in history along with Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein who broke the Watergate story that took Nixon down.
Spread the word.
This is a most powerful discource which sadly, few if any could argue against. Judge Surrick chose to take a nap at the very time he should have been acting is his capacity as a sitting federal judge. Considering the legal arguments presented here by Dr. Vieira, clearly Judge Surrick was AWOL on this one.
If I were Chief Justice John Roberts, I would advise Obama to show up with the paperwork prior to taking the Oath of Office. No paperwork, no oath given by Justice Roberts. After all, there is no reason why Justice Roberts should take part in or be induced into taking part in anything remotely close to a fraud upon the United States.
The Viera article was magnificent. It appears, if I am reading this correctly, that if the poser should be elected and any law be "passed" and "signed" by the poser then the first and every citizen who might "violate"or disobey that law and be prosecuted could in fact name the poser as I believe it would be, a third party Defendant as the defense to not obeying or violating the law would be that it was invalid and the poser would have to then defend himself and ultimately prove his validity at that time. Imagine if he signs a tax bill? Hmmmmmmm Can you say tax holiday!
This article was so excellent and thorough, I posted a link to Mr. Vieira's website as soon as I found it earlier today. It is so powerful that it grabbed 3 votes before I could even bring it up on "My Submissions. It is apparently so threatening that RealClearPolitics took it down within 10 minutes, wiped out two other more disguised attempts, and when I sent the original link again, it said 7 other people had already put it forward but it was awaiting review by the moderators. Yeah, right. I've managed to keep a link up to Ron Paul's website who has the article also, but in disguise not so many people click the link. I just put a link up to you.
Anyway, here's the real reason for my comment--the risk we face if we do not win B v O. It's about when Hope and Change came to Australia last year. Life under Dear Leader, Prime Minister Kevin Rudd of Australia. Mr. Rudd rose rapidly from obscurity, with no executive or much other experience, with a grudge against his own country, touting Hope and Change. Sound like someone you know? Evidently, Mr. Rudd read the Saul Alinsky playbook, too. America, look into your new mirror.
http://aussienewsviews.blogspot.com/2008/10/americans-beware-australian-internet-to.html
What happened to Obama's gravely ill grandmother?
The only thing that seems to have happened since the messiah's trip to Hawaii is the birth certificate was 'sealed'. (Maybe that was the second miracle, the first following below.)
I guess the messiah healed his grandmother while in Hawaii, (she seems to be suddenly 'healed') ... I guess the remaining question is did the messiah fly to Hawaii or did he walk on the 3,000 miles of water to Hawaii to heal her?
Perhaps he did walk... and that's why Michelle and the daughters were unable to visit the 'gravely ill' grandmother. Only the messiah can walk on water.
PROVE YOU ARE ELIGIBLE TO THE ELECTORATE!!!
Can the Chief Justice administer the Oath of Office for President 'uphold and defend the constitution' without seeing absolute irrefutable and forensicly proven evidence that Obama is eligible by means of a true birth certificate?
"Fourth, if he turns out to be nothing but an usurper acting in the guise of “the President,” Obama will not constitutionally be the “Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States”"
Excellent article - it'll take more than one reading to absorb it. But this is critical, I think. I don't think Congress will stop him.
An excellent read. Very well cited and he made his crises impacts very strongly. Jeff, has berg seen this? He might want to use some of it to submit...
Dude,
Nice touch with "Hence"...very upscale. You going to Georgetown Law School? :)
Beautifully said, beautifully written. I wish he was helping Berg with the case. I pray the Court sees this article, and soon.
Excellent writing!!!
Thanks for posting.
I think Berg is doing a great job, but has he contacted any Constitutional lawyers to help with this and ensure it is filed in the proper court? I'm sure there are some of these Constitutional lawyers who would help Berg without fee.
I wonder if other lawyers have contacted Berg to offer assistance
This guy should be arguing the case, he makes Berg's stuff look minor league.
I hope that when mr. Berg wrote his brief he had help from the good professor Vieira. Ultimately there is a difference between one who is a lawyer and one has knowledge and understanding of the law.
BERG MUST RELEASE THE VIDEO TAPE OF OBAMA'S KENYAN GRANDMOTHER STATING SHE WAS IN THE DELIVERY ROOM WHEN BARACK WAS BORN IN KENYA! PLEASE TRY TO CONVINCE HIM TO DO IT IN THE NEXT 24 HOURS. AFTER THE ELECTION, PEOPLE WILL CLAIM IT WAS DOCTORED AND WHY DIDN'T HE RELEASE IT BEFORE. CAN HE GIVE IT TO YOU, JEFF, TO BE AUTHENTICATED AND TO GET IT OUT?
That was an earful! I don't even hear mention of this on Fox News. When I mention this to people, most have no clue about the lawsuits, and if they do, they minimize it as a hoax. Am I the only one who thinks this is the biggest potential fraud perpetrated in our lifetime? Why isn't Hillary mentioning this? Why doesn't McCain or Palin ask BO to just show us his documents? If I were a journalist, I would be ALL over this! Where is the media?? Too bad I don't drink or cuz I could use a shot of whiskey!
So send it to the Chief Justice.
Look at what Obama is doing to the election process. I'm afraid that if he gets in office, he will do something to make it impossible to call his presidency illegitimate.
Hey, Jeff--
Thanks for having shared that most wonderful, inspirational and educational article by Dr. Edwin Vieira, Jr. with us!
Proves that great journalists run in the Vieira family--! If I am not mistaken, Dr. Vieira is the brother of NBC Today's Meredith Vieira (her father, according to Wiki-pedia was Edwin Vieira).
Hopefully, Meredith's had the opportunity to read her brother's fine article, and has circulated it around the newsroom at NBC. Who knows? Perhaps after reading Dr. Vieira's piece, Meredith and/or some of her colleagues will feel compelled to report about this most important issue of our time.
This is an excellent article, I hope Berg has read it and considers...Dr. Vieira has paved a solid path.
Dan N.
Jeff,
Would it be fair to say that Berg has digested this article and plans to incorporate its well-reasoned arguments into his SCOTUS appeal?
What is the possibility of Viera filing a "friend of the Court" brief??
Outstandingly written! Spot on in every situation and on every side of this terrifying dilemma. Thank you for posting this Jeff and thank you for writing this very informative missive Edwin.
I am certain that the Bush Federal Court appointees have been stalled by Pelosi and Reed in order to have the Courts in their camp, if the worst should happen and everything hits the fan after the GE.
Additionally, I believe he knows that we are closing in because his citizenship/ineligibility issue is now being reported on out in the mainstream. It is no longer considered an internet hoax.
This is why he's been telling his supporters to vote early and to take off from school and work on 11/4 to vote. He wants to be mandated and then he and Pelosi will take over the government. If there is a majority of Dems in Congress, I believe they will move to completely take over the government.
Since they have the lower Courts stacked with "their people" I don't think they mean to relinquish the government or the Presidency. Just take a look at the rulings that have come down against the GOP's voter registration fraud suits. They have everyone in place and they're making their move.
If you take a look at Raila Odinga's website: Raila Odinga 2007 (his cousin in Kenya). The ongoing mantra or motto on his website is also "CHANGE." Odinga has also "changed" their Constitution.
It was he who initiated the uprising that ended with over 1000 deaths when he lost their Presidential election. Obama was in Kenya campaigning for him and gave him 1 Million dollars in campaign contributions from his own campaign money.
When Odinga lost, Obama, who had been advising him on his campaign, told him to accuse that the election was rigged. That resulted in the uprising and the aforementioned deaths. Odinga promised the Muslim leadership in that country that if they delivered their vote he would bring Syria Law to Kenya, as their primary religion.
Please take a look at the DSA website. It's the Democratic Socialists of America and their agenda: http://www.dsausa.org/dsa.html. Also, have a look at this. It used to be on a Congressman's website who was a member but it's now gone.
I got this web address from a post that was on a website that said he used to have the list of DSA members on his site. Warning: be in a sitting position when you read who's on the membership rolls: http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/summary.asp?object=Persons&category=
Wow... all I can say is, Wow. Thank you for posting this article.
May God bless America, and may we please be a blessing to Him.
OMG this is an incredible great read. Tedwin Vieira, Jr really knows Constitutional Law. He has an incredible mind and understanding.
I hope Berg includes this in his filing tomorrow. Incredible explanation. Obviously he has great experience in knowing how to argue to the Supreme Court and a tremendous ability with words.
If I were the lawyer on this case I would step aside and allow him to argue the case in court.
I have been following this case from before the filing and this is the best.
I feel empowered and I feel my Standing to Protest. I have been feeling we have a lost case and now I feel we have a won case if presented correctly.
POWERFUL.
Is this the actual case that Berg is presenting to the Supreme Court, or is this just something that this man wrote and is now circulating the internet? Is he helping Berg in writing this?Or is Berg presenting something else of his own that we don't know about?
I hope they are working together, because that sure sounds like a damn good case to me !!!!
Please convince Berg to release the Kenyan Grandmother video tape about Obama being born in Kenya! Please do it NOW! We are almost out of time.
Great analysis by Mr. Vieira, and I hope he is now assisting Mr. Berg.
One issue that was not addressed, was if BHO is truly a usurper, what does this mean in regards to being Senator Usurper and all of the federal legislation that he introduced and/or passed and/or voted for or against? And how far does this go back? Would he also have been Senator Usurper in the Illinois State Senate?
And if BHO is shown to be the Usurper, how does the country untangle this mess? If BHO seemingly wins 270+ electoral votes on election day but becomes the Usurper prior to the Electoral College vote, what happens? Or if BHO becomes the Usurper prior to being sworn in, what happens? Or after being sworn in? Would the Senate or House get a shot at naming Biden to be the president? And his vice-president would be?
Newguy
Absolutely the best explanation that I have read. Very thorough and clear. Thank you Dr. Vieira!
So basically, if Obama wins, is not made to produce the official record of birth and gets sworn in, our country is in trouble. If he is made to produce it and he can't, this country will uprise. The only way WE THE PEOPLE have a chance of things getting better, is prayer and LOTS of it. Get on your knees America, and stay there until God brings us victory.
Thank you for this superb article Jeff. God Bless!
I got an e-mail reply from the office of Governor Lingle today saying that she didn't actually "seal" the BC...
"Thank you for emailing Governor Linda Lingle’s office. A recent article in WorldNetDaily.com (October 26, 2008) claiming that Hawai‘i Governor Linda Lingle sealed Sen. Barack Obama’s birth certificate is false. "
It then goes to say blah, blah, blah about Hawaii's laws about BC's and who can access them, etc., etc. Just thought that was a poor attempt at damage control.
Enjoyed the article above, although need to read it closer... I was already thinking how difficult it would be to take laws seriously if he gets by with this...
Hmmm... it's aout time you grabbed you ****s and reported on this! I've been posting everywhere since the end of August when I spoke with Mr. Berg and told him I would make it my agenda to post this story everywhere - O'Reilly, Hannity - wouldn't touch it! Thank you for evidencing your patriotism and sharing the truth with the People!
Best regards,
Winginit
Is anybody talking to Obama's Auntie in Boston? Hmmm, she's says she won't say anything until after the election... I think you should send somebody over with a nice cup of coffee and coffee cake to visit "Auntie" on the morning of November 5th. =)
Google
"political power is inherent in the people"
and you will see the phrase is found in many of the state constitutions. Did the judge deny Berg a right secured by the 9th Amendment?
One of the first comments mentioned the BC on Obama's website, and how it needs to be proven fake.
I thought it HAD been proven to be a fake, at least as much as it could without it being available to be held and inspected in person.
I don't see Berg going this far if he wasn't convinced that it was fake. Am I wrong?
Excellent article by Veiria...it is scary to read the consequences of electing Obama if he really isn't a legitimate candidate.
Winginit ---
You'll see, from the links on the right-hand side of the page, that I've been on this from the beginning. In fact, I was in the room when the case was filed, and I actually broke this story.
As for the rest of you, I'M SO SORRY ABOUT THE LITTLE TEXT SIZE!!! The article is so long, and I hastily put it together as I prepared to leave work and go to class ... I'm sorry to have strained your eyes! (I've made it a little bigger.)
-- Jeff
All I can say is WOW. You are right that's incredible. It's taken me till 10pm to read through it, sure has cleared up a lot of questions in my mind. What it amounts to, if Obama should get elected he will be TOTALLY POWERLESS.
Go forward Mr Berg, good luck with the Supreme Court. Thanks again Jeff for all your hard work.
GOD BLESS AMERICA!
Please read a comment
Posted by: btw77
Oct 29, 10:19 AM
to the article:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/who_enforces_the_constitutions.html
It's about how to get VIDEO "October Surprise" (Berg v. Obama & DNC et al.) on National TV.
It's more comfortable read it following the link above.
But a copy of that post is placed below:
===================================
Dear Ladies & Gentlemen,
Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that now it's time not to discuss legalities. Now it's time to act and win elections on Nov 4.
Please read ACTION ALERT in here:
http://www.americasright.com/2008/10/mr-berg-goes-to-washington.html?showComment=1225288740000#c4089985671194195605
(and what mentioned inside it:
http://www.americasright.com/2008/10/philip-berg-fox-news-api-standing-and.html?showComment=1225232340000#c2259205571641200805 )
ACT accordingly if you are agree with an offer there.
Thanks!
===================================
Are you people so desperate and delusional that you actually believe Obama is not a natural born citizen? His birth certificate is available for inspection at his campaign headquarters. Factcheck.org looked at it and said they thought it was real. Neither Clinton nor McCain has brought up the issue. In fact, neither has the Republican National Committee. The only ones who actually believe this nonsense are you kooks. Wow. I really didn't think people like you existed in this country.
I'm sure you were all equally concerned with the case that found an individual had no standing to challenge whether McCain was a "natural born citizen."
Virtually the same suit and same legal reasoning re: standing. Slightly different facts, I'll admit, but there appears to be some serious partisan cherry-picking going on here.
Shocker.
Maybe if Republicans spent half the time focusing on their own candidate and actual issues as they have pushing tired conspiracy theories about Obama, they'd stand half a chance in this election.
Also, before you put all your stock in Berg, remember that before this suit, he gained notoriety arguing that the U.S. gov't was behind 9-11. Does that make you rethink how much stock you can put in the Berg lawsuit?
The article really does give me "hope" and I have been warning early voters in Houston about the possible fraud.Last week and some this week I hold a HUGE foam-core sign that reads with stuff like:
Vote for a pro-American not a post-American
Pick the guy with a birth certificate
Obama..I'm still waiting on your birth certificate,etc. people are smiling and if I don't piss them off too bad they want to know what i'm on about.
Stalled traffic gets the FULL BRUNT of freedom of speech as I rant about the Constitution and the eligibilty requirements and I let the people know REAL LOUD that I have a right to know who's going to the oval office and until you prove it to me don't dare speak about a "flawed Constitution"
Jeff, Thanks for getting this awesome material by Dr. Vieira posted for all to see. It is excellent and I'm sure more of what our founding fathers would have expected than what Judge Surrick or his understudy provided in response to Berg. My question is what happens if Obama provides a COLB that lists only his mother and the father is unknown? What if Obama Sr. is really not the father but Frank Marshall Davis is as Andy Martin claims? What if Obama is holding his original to avoid the embarassment of naming Frank Marshall Davis as his real father? Did he still forfeit his citizenship by going to Indonesia to school as a youngster? What will happen to the citizenship question under the above situations? Too bad that Dr. Vieira's writing can't reach the mainstream media and the public before election day. I really don't believe that the majority of the public is aware of this case or the possible constitutional crisis. Thanks for doing such an awesome job of getting this information available on your website. Too bad John McCain's candidacy is not more agressive and has this information to work with.
anonymous wrote:
One of the first comments mentioned the BC on Obama's website, and how it needs to be proven fake.
I thought it HAD been proven to be a fake, at least as much as it could without it being available to be held and inspected in person.
I don't see Berg going this far if he wasn't convinced that it was fake. Am I wrong?
No, it hasn't been proved fake.
Berg relied on the writings of an anonymous blog poster who went by the moniker of "Techdude."
Techdude was exposed as a fraud some time ago when it was discovered that he was fabricating his "evidence" that the certificate was fake.
However not even that has stopped Berg from continuing to use Techdude's fraudulent analysis. Just last week when Berg was on the Michael Savage show, he claimed that you could see the name of Obama's half sister Maya beneath his name on the certificate (the claim being that Obama's "fake" certificate was made using his sister's real certificate).
Berg exercised ZERO due diligence with respect to the evidence he presents in his case. In other words, he did absolutely NOTHING to verify that any of the claims were true.
He simply dug up stuff he'd read on the Internet and cobbled it together into a lawsuit.
That's how he ended up making reference in his initial filing to a Canadian birth certificate in Obama's name which gave a date of birth of August 23rd, 1961.
Quoting from Berg's initial filing:
There is a Canadian Birth Certificate posted on the Internet in the name of Barack Hussein Obama, Jr.; however the date of birth shows to be August 23, 1961.
This Canadian birth certificate was intentionally made up as a joke, which was obvious to anyone who bothered to give it even a cursory examination.
Here's the certificate in question:
Obama's Canadian Birth Certificate
The certificate was issued by the Province of Ontario. However the place of birth was given as Vancouver, British Columbia (that's like having a California birth certificate when you were born in Texas).
The certificate number was "BR 549. The famous telephone number for Samples Sales, a regular skit featured on the old Hee-Haw TV series.
And finally, the certificate was signed by Dudley Doright, a cartoon character (a Canadian Mountie) featured on the old Rocky & Bullwinkle show.
Also, that law that Berg cites to support his claim that Obama lost his his US citizenship when he was taken to Indonesia by his mother actually contradicts his claim.
That's because he never actually read the law. Instead, he relied on the writings of yet another anonymous blog poster who goes by the moniker of "Judah Benjamin."
Berg's lawsuit is little more than a joke. Something he sloppily cobbled together for no other purpose than to try and get publicity.
He should be thankful it was thrown out for lack of standing. If his evidence ever had to actually be heard in court, he would end up being thoroughly mocked and ridiculed, and likely faced sanctions for failing to have exercised due diligence.
Bottom line, Berg's case is about as credible as this garbage coming from API.
k
anonymous wrote:
Did he still forfeit his citizenship by going to Indonesia to school as a youngster?
The law is clear. Obama would not have lost his US citizenship even if he had been naturalized as a citizen of Indonesia.
The only way he would have lost it is if he had not established a permanent residence in the US by his twenty-fifth birthday.
k
To john galt and pete and anyone else referencing to the document at factcheck.com.
First of all, a Certificate of Live Birth (COLB), is NOT a birth certificate AND it does NOT prove your Citizenship status.
You can get a COLB AFTER the birth, i.e. born at home or in a taxi, and then registered. A birth certificate has validation by the doctor and witnesses verifying that the child was born where the birth certificate states it has taken place.
So, putting up a COLB on the factcheck.com is USELESS. Besides, there are plenty of people that have questioned the jpg image as well as people that have verified it. Hence the question. Still, all moot point because a COLB is not a satisfactory evidence of natural born citizen.
Additionally, the most interesting point in all of this is the fact that Sen. Obama went to Pakistan in 1981 for 3 weeks when U.S. Citizens WERE NOT allowed into the country. Just how did he managed to do THAT?
If he could not use a U.S. passport to get entry into Pakistan, then, what passport of which nation did he use??? And what did he have to do in order to get such a passport???
Since he's 19-20 years old, he can not claim that that his parents were dragging him around. As an adult, he made the decisions and took actions.
These are the questions that Sen. Obama has to explain and do so in a rational manner.
Unfortunately, I just don't see a credible explanation that will also allow him to claim Natural Born Citizen Status.
tired of being called racist wrote:
Additionally, the most interesting point in all of this is the fact that Sen. Obama went to Pakistan in 1981 for 3 weeks when U.S. Citizens WERE NOT allowed into the country. Just how did he managed to do THAT?
He managed to do that because this whole notion that US citizens were not allowed into Pakistan in 1981 IS A MYTH.
Unfortunately, I just don't see a credible explanation that will also allow him to claim Natural Born Citizen Status.
Because there's not one shred of credible evidence that he was born anyplace other than Hawaii.
k
To koyaan,
It's amazing how you can categorically say something is a MYTH, without offering any proof.
If you believe that to be the case, how about a link or two from official sources that states that as a fact???? Or, Sen. Obama could produce his U.S. passport with the Pakistan VISA, stamped entry into the country and exit stamp.
It's so easy for him to prove if he has the proper documentation.
Please, do some research, and enlighten us with your knowledge and wisdom, instead of statements of belief without any proof.
You have to agree that if it is indeed true that Pakistan was closed to US citizens in 1981, and Sen. Obama traveled there for 3 weeks is 1981, he would be admitting that he is not a Natural Born US Citizen.
As for the credible explanation about Sen. Obama's claim to have been born in Hawaii, doesn't it strike you odd that all he has to do is produce proper documents and he has yet not done so?
Then, there are alleged statements from Sen. Obama's grandmother from his father's side that claims that she was present at his birth in a hospital in Kenya. Along with other relative's claim that they were present at the event also.
Now, you noticed that I said, alleged, as in, not proven yet.
If Mr. Berg is able to produce the tape where his grandmother makes this statement and a third party can translate the statement and verify it, then, it would make Sen. Obama's claim that he was born in Hawaii a complete lie.
Also, there are conflicting account of which exact hospital he was born in Hawaii. He says one hospital, and I believe his half-sister says another hospital. Very odd, don't you think?
I happen to work in a Liquor store, and let me tell you something from experience. When I ask someone for ID for proof of age, it's very simple. Either they show me an acceptable ID, or don't get to purchase the product. It's that simple. Acceptable IDs are DMV issued ID, Passport, or Military Service ID. Nothing else.
I've had people show me their High-School ID. On more than one occasion. Can you believe that???
High-School ID. So, they're telling me that they're 21 AND still in High-School???? Give me a break.
By the way, did you have any problems with the other points that I brought up, as in COLB is NOT a Birth Certificate?
If not, then, I guess you'll stop claiming that the jpg image in factcheck.com is proof that he is a natural born citizen.
New Khalidi video has been posted.
http://www.jenniferdevore.blogspot.com
this man doesn't have to do s**t! he's literally kicking mccains butt in the polls and from what larry sabato just said, he WILL be the next president with pretty outstanding numbers. everything has been thrown at him, fair or unfair, and nothing sticks. Like it or not, that's a sign that this man will be our next president. Let's face it, the bar has been set very low thanks to mr bush!
Hey Jeff, this ruling should come in tomorrow by noon. Keep your fingers crossed everyone!
Judge to rule on local man's attempt to kick Obama off ballots
By Justin McClelland
Staff Writer
Thursday, October 30, 2008
LEBANON — A Warren County judge will decide whether Sen. Barack Obama's name can appear on Ohio election ballots after listening this morning, Thursday, Oct. 30, to a Turtlecreek Twp. man who claims that the Democratic presidential candidate is not a U.S. citizen and cannot be elected president.
David Neal appeared in Warren County Common Pleas Court after filing a lawsuit on Friday. Neal wants a court order to remove Obama's name from ballots to be used in the general election on Tuesday, Nov. 4.
Neal claims Obama was not born in the United States and cannot be president because the U.S. Constitution allows only native-born citizens to be elected to that post.
"We're facing a constitutional crisis," Neal said this morning in court. "Until we get to the bottom of this, there's going to be disenfranchisement."
Neal, who described himself as a retired "jack of all trades," said after the hearing that he filed the lawsuit himself and is not working with or for the Republican Party in the lawsuit.
Appearing before Magistrate W. Andrew Hasselbach, Neal said he had researched questions about Obama's birthplace since 2006 and made several requests to the Hawaiian bureau of statistics, Democratic National Party and Ohio Democratic Party for a birth certificate that would prove Obama was born in Hawaii.
"Wouldn't you think a doctor or nurse would have stepped up and said I was in the room when he was born?" Neal said.
In his lawsuit and during the hearing, Near cited numerous Web sites as sources of information to challenge Obama's birthplace. Neal added that he had to produce birth certificates to sign his children up for youth football.
In a brief filed today disputing Neal's claim, the Ohio Attorney General's office said that Ohio Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner has "no legal authority to perform" the removal of Obama's name from ballots.
"... the allegations in the Complaint are nothing but speculation and inadmissible hearsay. There is no evidence in the Record that Senator Obama was born in Kenya, or that he somehow lost his United States citizenship during his time in Indonesia. Mr. Neal's allegations are anything but 'clear or free from reasonable doubt' ," the attorney general's brief stated.
Mike Schuler and Steven McGann, representatives from the Ohio Attorney General's office, also appeared this morning in Warren County Common Pleas Court, filed the state's brief and said nothing during the hearing.
Hasselbach asked Neal why he had waited until 11 days before the election to file his claim. Neal said that he had hoped other cases in Philadelphia and Washington, D.C. would clear up questions about Obama's citizenship, and when they did not, he decided to take action.
The judge said he would issue a decision on Neal's request for an injunction by noon on Friday, Oct. 31
http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/10/30/ws103008obamasuit.html
tired of being called racist wrote:
It's amazing how you can categorically say something is a MYTH, without offering any proof.
I can't show you what's not there.
No one has provided a shred of evidence that Americans could not travel to Pakistan in 1981. I've researched this myself and was unable to find any evidence of it.
Nothing from the State Department, no news item, nothing.
On the other hand, in the summer of 1981, the New York Times published an article in their Travel section on Pakistan. There was no mention of any restrictions on travel to Pakistan and indeed, the Pakistan government was even encouraging tourism.
If you can offer up any credible evidence that Americans couldn't travel to Pakistan in 1981, I'd be more than happy to take a look at it. But in the two months that I've been looking into this whole thing, I've seen nothing.
You have to agree that if it is indeed true that Pakistan was closed to US citizens in 1981, and Sen. Obama traveled there for 3 weeks is 1981, he would be admitting that he is not a Natural Born US Citizen.
No, I don't have to agree. And neither does the law.
Obama's being born in Hawaii made him a US citizen at birth. That citizenship would not have been lost even if he had become a naturalized citizen of Indonesia when his mother took him there when he was a child.
As for the credible explanation about Sen. Obama's claim to have been born in Hawaii, doesn't it strike you odd that all he has to do is produce proper documents and he has yet not done so?
I see nothing improper about the document he has already offered.
Then, there are alleged statements from Sen. Obama's grandmother from his father's side that claims that she was present at his birth in a hospital in Kenya.
There is no verifiable source for this claim. If you have one, I'd love to see it.
If Mr. Berg is able to produce the tape where his grandmother makes this statement and a third party can translate the statement and verify it, then, it would make Sen. Obama's claim that he was born in Hawaii a complete lie.
And if frogs had wings, they wouldn't bump their asses hoppin'.
By the way, did you have any problems with the other points that I brought up, as in COLB is NOT a Birth Certificate?
The COLB is, "prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding."
Until someone comes up with some credible evidence that he was born outside the United States, the COLB is fine with me.
k
To Koyaan,
So, you're basing you claim of the Myth because of NY Times Travel Section??? Are you kidding me????
I guess you're saying it all depends what the meaning of 'MYTH' is.
As for agreeing about his citizen's status, yeah, from you point of view. From a skeptic's point of view, his travel to a country closed to US Citizens in 1981 would be a major red flag.
And, as you can well tell, I'm not bringing up the time his mother took him to Indonesia when he was a child. Rather, the actions that he took in 1981, when he's 19-20, as an adult makes him the one sorely responsible.
As for the jpg image that he has offered up, it's not even a document. It's only a picture of the document. Or a scan. Like nobody has the ability to manipulate a pic file. Oh, please.
I could reproduce a better looking one in 30 mins without using photoshop.
As for his grandmother claiming that Obama was born in Kenya, if Mr. Berg has such a tape, that will open the floodgates. That's all I'm saying. I, for one, believe that Mr. Berg has such a tape.
My, still functioning logical brain, tells me that there's too much smoke, and it's just a matter of time before you find fire.
Just my opinion.
>>Until someone comes up with some credible evidence that he was born outside the United States, the COLB is fine with me.>>
Obama's sister Maia is _known_ to have been born in Indonesia, but she seems to have a COLB - is that not correct? How can that be?
The fact that one is _born_ is not proof of _where_ one is born. "Where" Obama was born is the crux of the issue. We _know_ he was born.
tired of being called racist wrote:
So, you're basing you claim of the Myth because of NY Times Travel Section??? Are you kidding me????
I guess you're saying it all depends what the meaning of 'MYTH' is.
That and the fact that there has not been a shred of evidence supporting the claim.
Find some real evidence of it and I'll be happy to take a look at it.
As for agreeing about his citizen's status, yeah, from you point of view. From a skeptic's point of view, his travel to a country closed to US Citizens in 1981 would be a major red flag.
Show me the evidence that Pakistan was closed to US citizens in 1981. If this were in fact the case, it should be rather trivially easy to provide some convincing evidence of it.
This claim has been floating around for months, and yet no one has been able to provide any convincing evidence that it's true.
I suspect someone may have read about a State Department "Travel Alert" or "Travel Warning" regarding Pakistan at the time and mistakenly assumed this meant that US citizens could not travel to Pakistan.
However State Department Travel Alerts and Travel Warnings are only advisory in nature. They do not prohibit US citizens from traveling to countries for which Travel Alerts or Travel Warnings have been issued.
In my own research, I found that there had been a Travel Alert issued for Pakistan back around that time due to the hijacking of a Pakistani airliner.
But again, these alerts and warnings do not prohibit US citizens from traveling to those countries.
As for the jpg image that he has offered up, it's not even a document. It's only a picture of the document. Or a scan. Like nobody has the ability to manipulate a pic file. Oh, please.
I could reproduce a better looking one in 30 mins without using photoshop.
You might wish to check out these photographs:
Born in the USA
The document is kept at the Obama campaign's Chicago headquarters. There is nothing preventing anyone from visiting there and asking to see the paper document for themselves.
Did Berg ever bother to do this?
No.
As for his grandmother claiming that Obama was born in Kenya, if Mr. Berg has such a tape, that will open the floodgates. That's all I'm saying. I, for one, believe that Mr. Berg has such a tape.
And again, if frogs had wings they wouldn't bump their asses hoppin'.
You're free to believe whatever you like. Though I don't know why would anyone would unquestioningly believe someone like Berg who has made so many false and unsubstantiated claims I've lost count of them.
My, still functioning logical brain, tells me that there's too much smoke, and it's just a matter of time before you find fire.
The only smoke I've seen is the smoke Berg's been trying to blow up peoples' asses for the past couple of months.
k
suek wrote:
Obama's sister Maia is _known_ to have been born in Indonesia, but she seems to have a COLB - is that not correct? How can that be?
I never said his half sister Maya had a Hawaiian COLB.
It was claimed by the now-discredited "Techdude" that Obama's COLB was fake, and that it was made using her Hawaiian COLB. And further, you could still see her name in the image of Obama's COLB.
This was among the clues that revealed Techdude to be a fraud and that his claims were bullshit.
I brought this up because even though Berg knows Techdude was a fraud, he's STILL referencing Techdude's claims.
He did this when he was on Michael Savage's show last week.
The fact that one is _born_ is not proof of _where_ one is born. "Where" Obama was born is the crux of the issue. We _know_ he was born.
WHERE Obama was born is given on his Hawaiian COLB: Honolulu, Hawaii.
k
To koyaan,
Oh, please, I've seen those photos before. It's very interesting. However, those pics are just shots of a document in different angles. With the advent of 10 megapixel cameras, don't you think one could take a shot of the whole document in detail? Or a little video to illustrate that it is only 1 document? Why is it that it only show some part of a document? In fact, why didn't they just provide it to the judge? It certainly would solve any lawsuit.
As for it being a COLB, a COLB is AFTER the birth. It's only a registration of birth, NOT where he was born.
If Sen. Obama wants to claim that his registration of birth was done in Hawaii, then, that document, provided is genuine, would show that.
However, it still wouldn't prove beyond doubt that he was actually born in U.S.
Registration of Birth is not proof that he was born in U.S.
That is why he needs to provide the actual Vault Birth Certificate.
And no matter, you many times you blow smoke up you ass, it won't make it true.
The part you seem to have skipped, Koyaan, is that he put a COLB on the internet as proof. That is a far cry from this:
" On a matter this important, Americans will demand that, before its authenticity is accepted, any supposed documentary evidence of that sort be subjected to reproducible forensic analyses conducted by reputable, independent investigators and laboratories above any suspicion of being influenced by or colluding with any public official, bureaucracy, political party, or other special-interest organization whatsoever."
He just needs to hand it over if it's valid.
Edwin Vieira should also file a lawsuit on his own, especially since he knows all of the legal particulars needed in order to get Obama to produce his birth certificate. Vieira, obviously knows what counter arguments to use. Otherwise, Obama is going to win, and our Constitution rediculed by an imposter and his cronies. America needs patriots. What say you, Vieira? Take the challenge, help Americans expose Obama!
The electoral college can put a stop to Obama's deception, the electors fromthe various states have the freedom and the duty to elect a constitutionally elegible human to the position. This could end up being like the old time electoral college events, and even Hillary could get elected!
But the electors need to stand up and do their duty, quick, while they still have time.
Roses, Bothell
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