Berg v. Obama Update -- Monday, October 6
TWO FILINGS: Berg Files Motion for Leave to File Amended Complaint, Obama and DNC File Motion to Delay Discovery Until Judge Decides on Prior Motion to Dismiss
It was a busy day in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania today. First, attorney Philip Berg filed a motion asking the court to permit him to file an amended complaint with several additions. Next, attorneys for Barack Obama and the DNC filed a motion asking the court for a protective order, essentially asking that the judge rule on their motion to dismiss for lack of standing before ruling on Berg's motion for expedited discovery.
Analysis of both filings can be found below.
Incidentally, for those seeking background on the civil action first broken wide open here at America's Right, everything is located on the right-hand side of the page under the "Berg v. Obama @ America's Right" heading, and the original article which started it all can be read by clicking HERE.
-- Jeff
Obama, DNC File Motion for Protective Order
Today, attorneys for Barack Obama and the Democratic National Committee filed a Motion for Protective Order, essentially asking Judge R. Barclay Surrick to issue an order staying discovery until after he decides on the motion to dismiss filed by the defendants on September 24. Such protective orders are issued, and are done so to protect the interests of involved parties, namely to avoid embarrassment, undue expense, harassment and more.
The motion had been filed at about 4:45p.m. today and as I was talking with one of my contacts at the courthouse about it, my mobile phone rang. It was Philip Berg ... a very fired-up, angry Philip Berg. Apparently, he had just been contacted by John LaVelle, attorney for Barack Obama and the DNC, and asked whether he would "put off discovery until Judge Surrick ruled on the motion to dismiss."
Basically, the law states that Judge Surrick can order discovery even in the face of a pending dispositive motion such as the motion to dismiss filed on September 24 by Obama and the DNC. In other words, he can order full discovery, limited discovery, or none at all before ruling on the dismissal. The Motion for Protective Order filed by Obama and the DNC, however, asks for the court to issue a protective order stopping "all discovery in this action pending the Court's decision on defendant's motion to dismiss the action for lack of subject matter jurisdiction and for failure to state a claim upon which relief can be granted."
Plaintiff has served extensive discovery requests on defendants. As noted in Defendants’ Brief in Support of their Motion to Dismiss, this lawsuit is entirely without merit and plaintiffs’ allegations are patently false. Defendants have moved to dismiss this action for lack of subject matter jurisdiction and failure to state a claim. That motion presents solely issues of law; no discovery is needed in order to resolve the motion. If the motion is granted, it will dispose of the entire action, obviating the need for the burdensome discovery sought by plaintiff. A protective order staying discovery is therefore warranted.Just like with the amended complaint, an attorney cannot simply file a protective order but must file a motion for one, essentially asking the court to issue the order. That's what this is -- a motion asking the judge to issue a protective order which would allow for a ruling to come down on the motion to dismiss before the commencement of any discovery.
Obviously the first reaction is "what do they have to hide?" or something along those lines. However, Rule 26(c) of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure provides authorization to the court for just such a matter, ostensibly to protect one of the parties from embarrassment or oppression or the like. I'm sure there's some case law on it as well. In spite of the rules, Berg suspected foul play.
"He's asking to delay discovery and, Jeff, I'm obviously going to oppose it, " he said. "This isn't right. This just isn't right. By tomorrow, we'll have a response and put out a press release. The American people should hear about this and, if they do, they should go nuts. It's time to put up or shut up."
Obama and the DNC, in the brief supporting today's Motion for Protective Order, cite the "burdensome discovery" sought by Berg. Berg did in fact submit more than 50 admissions requests to both Obama and the DNC, seeking an admission on everything from "[a]dmit you are an attorney who specializes in Constitutional Law" to "[a]dmit the only time you have been to a hospital in Hawaii was for check-ups or medical treatments for illnesses" to "[a]dmit you were born in Kenya," and his request for production of documents seeks everything from Obama's "vault" copy of his birth certificate to his transcript and records at Occidental College.
Speaking with Berg later this afternoon, he mentioned that he may agree to stay discovery with regard to some of his requests for admissions and documentation, but keep "about 10 of the necessary admissions" and "crucial documentation like his vault birth certificate and oath of allegiance" in play for discovery should it be granted.
"First," Berg said, "I will object completely, but then we'll provide Judge Surrick with the option of limited documents and admissions."
This evening, Berg put out a press release entitled "Country Headed to a Constitutional Crisis." Here it is:
(Lafayette Hill, Pennsylvania – 10/06/08) - Philip J. Berg, Esquire, the Attorney who filed suit against Barack H. Obama challenging Senator Obama’s lack of “qualifications” to serve as President of the United States, announced today that Obama and Democratic National Committee [DNC] filed a Joint Motion for Protective Order to Stay Discovery Pending a Decision on the Motion to Dismiss they filed on 09/24/08.A response to the Motion for Protective Order should be expected, Berg said, within the next day or two. I have a hunch that the next few days will bring an order of some sort from Judge Surrick. With the three open motions now pending, perhaps he will address all of them at once.
While legal, Berg stated he is “outraged as this is another attempt to hide the truth from the public; it is obvious that documents do not exist to prove that Obama is qualified to be President.” The case is Berg v. Obama, No. 08-cv-04083.
Their joint motion indicates a concerted effort to avoid the truth by attempting to delay the judicial process, although legal, by not resolving the issue presented: that is, whether Barack Obama meets the qualifications to be President.
It is obvious that Obama was born in Kenya and does not meet the “qualifications” to be President of the United States pursuant to our United States Constitution. Obama cannot produce a certified copy of his “Vault” [original long version] Birth Certificate from Hawaii because it does not exist.
Furthermore, and actually more important is Obama’s Certificate of Citizenship that he received when he returned from Indonesia, as if it exists it would indicate that Obama was “naturalized” and also not able to be President.
The DNC has promised “we the people” an Open and Honest Government and has promised to uphold our United States Constitution. The DNC has failed their promise. DNC Chairperson Howard Dean should resign as he has not and is not fulfilling his responsibility of seeing that a “qualified” candidate is on the ballot as the Democratic candidate for President of the United States.
9:00 a.m. -- Berg Files Motion for Leave to File Amended Complaint
This morning, prominent Philadelphia attorney and former Deputy Attorney General for the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania Philip Berg filed a Motion for Leave to File an Amended Complaint in his ongoing case against Illinois Sen. Barack Obama and others, arguing that Obama is in fact not a natural born United States citizen and, pursuant to Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution is ineligible to serve as president of the United States of America.Now, this does not mean that the amended complaint has been filed. Rule 15(a) of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure permits amendments by leave of court, which means essentially that the judge must sign off on this type of pleading before it is filed. Curiously enough, Rule 15(a) only requires leave to amend after the opposing party has filed a response pleading, and I'm not so sure that a motion to dismiss such as the one filed by Obama and the DNC counts as such a pleading. Regardless, I'm probably wrong, so for the purposes of this explanation, I'll assume that Berg has interpreted correctly the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure.
It should be known that any party is entitled to amend a pleading, such as a complaint, once and at any time before a responsive pleading is made. That being said, the motion to dismiss filed by Barack Obama and the DNC was a motion attacking Berg's pleading and is not considered a responsive pleading in itself. Furthermore, according to the rules and, as Berg accurately states in the brief which supports the Motion for Leave to File a First Amended Complaint, such leave shall be freely given when justice so requires.
If, however, Judge R. Barclay Surrick finds that there is some sort of actual prejudice to Obama and the other defendants, he can deny leave to amend or grant it with restrictions. Seeing that Berg has filed this particular motion fairly early in the whole process, I expect it will be granted. However, because this motion for leave to amend was filed by Berg after the defendants filed the motion to dismiss for failure to state a claim upon on which relief can be granted, Judge Surrick could deny leave if he believes that Berg still cannot state a proper claim. Then again, despite what my grade point average suggests, I really don't know all that much.
In the amended complaint which Berg is seeking to file in the wake of a motion to dismiss filed on September 24 by Obama and the Democratic National Committee and his own Opposition and Brief filed last week, Berg added a few claims and a few defendants, as well as rehashed the original allegations made more than a month ago in the initial complaint.
As expected, Berg added Pedro Cortes, Secretary of the Commonwealth for the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, given Cortes' role in fomenting and overseeing the electoral process in the Keystone State. He has also added, however, California Sen. Diane Feinstein in her role as Chairwoman of the U.S. Senate Commission on Rules and Administration, and the U.S. Senate Commission on Rules and Administration itself. The latter, according to the amended complaint, is "responsible for investigations into the qualifications of the President and Vice President candidates Federal elections" while the former "has primary authority" for oversight with regard to aspects related to ethics, campaign and election reform.
Berg is seeking, among other things, an order that Feinstein and the Rules Commission--along with the FEC--immediately conduct an investigation into "the fraudulent tactics of Obama" and into his citizenship status as well.
"The Senate should be investigating qualifications for higher office and for the Senate itself," Berg said. "We're thinking, at this point, that Obama is an illegal alien and therefore should be arrested, tried and deported. He certainly cannot hold his Senate seat."
I placed a telephone call to Sen. Feinstein's press office in Washington. The woman who answered the phone, Claire, was extremely nice but mentioned that this is the first they've heard of Berg's action. With any luck, Claire will get back to me with a comment after brushing up on the details of the case.
In the amended complaint, Berg also added a paragraph further addressing and supporting the court's jurisdiction over the matter at hand, questioned in the motion to dismiss filed by Obama and the DNC. The paragraph echoes a portion of the argument made by Berg in his Opposition to the defense motion, that the District Court has jurisdiction over the case pursuant to 5 USC §702, which states, in relevant part, that "[a] person suffering legal wrong because of agency action, or adversely affected or aggrieved by agency action within the meaning of a relevant statute, is entitled to judicial review thereof." This was a major part of his Opposition to the motion to dismiss filed by Obama and the DNC, and according to Berg goes to the failure of the Federal Election Commission and the DNC to investigate Barack Obama, his campaign, and the more than $400 million taken in under alleged false pretenses. From the complaint:
They are responsible for verifying the credentials and qualifications of Members of the Senate, contested elections and acceptance of incompatible offices. Moreover, in addition to the verification of a candidates qualifications, eligibility and credentials, they are responsible for Federal elections generally, including the election of the President, Vice President and Members of the Congress.In addition, Berg confronted the defendants' assertion that he lacked standing--the same argument from which three similar cases against Arizona Sen. John McCain were thrown out this year--and included the same supporting arguments he made in the Opposition and Brief. He asserts all of the same statutory and common law arguments, and even looks to show a little frustration:
There is absolutely no other way for Plaintiff to ensure his constitutionally protected rights. The only option Plaintiff had was to bring this action. This is the first time in American History a “naturalized” citizen and/or illegal alien have been allowed to campaign for the Office of President of the United States. There are not any other ways to establish or determine the legal status of our Presidential Candidates, whether Republican and/or Democratic. The FEC and DNC have refused to verify and furnish Plaintiff with Obama’s eligibility or lack thereof. Plaintiff has standing to challenge any person(s) citizenship and/or nationality status pursuant to statute, 8 U.S. C. §1481(b).Berg said this morning that, with regard to standing, he's just trying to "cover the board" in an attempt to look forward to the future, to look past Judge Surrick and the District Court if necessary.
"The longer we've been waiting, the more we've been doing further research, the more we've been finding out," Berg said. "If Judge Surrick doesn't grant standing, we're hoping that the Court of Appeals or the Supreme Court will look at the work we've done and grant it. I do think the Supreme Court would hear this case. We think we should get it there because it's an issue of the utmost importance which hasn't been touched yet."
"Still," he said, "I just want Judge Surrick to issue an order."
I may be wrong, but it looks like he added some further information from Indonesian law and history in support of his assertion that Obama relinquished U.S. Citizenship--if he had it to begin with--when he was adopted by stepfather Lolo Soetoro upon moving from Hawaii to Indonesia with his mother. The information was in the brief supporting his opposition, but apparently not in the original complaint.
Berg states that, even if Obama was indeed born in Hawaii to a mother who was a U.S. citizen, the situation in Indonesia, where Obama went to school and may have been formally adopted by his stepfather, it doesn't matter. As I mentioned in Is This For Real, and Why Hasn't the Mainstream Media Covered it Yet?, the Indonesian government only began acknowledging dual citizenship in November of 2006; in his amended complaint, Berg cites The Hague Convention of 1930 and argues that since Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship, neither did the United States when it came to Indonesia.
In the amended complaint, Berg also reiterates and expands upon his belief that Obama may have stated his citizenship as Kenyan when he applied for admission at Columbia University and possibly other schools. I can't say that I particularly subscribe to that assertion, however, as from all indications Barack Obama has been preparing to run for president since the moment the doctor slapped his posterior after he emerged from the womb.
Besides the new parties and the additional supporting information peppered throughout, Berg also added a number of new claims which, as required, all originated from the same conduct and occurrences as the original claims.
The amended complaint cites campaign fraud, citing all defendants' alleged violation of the Federal Election Campaign Act. According to the complaint, Obama committed a fraud against Berg and all American citizens by running for president, collecting more than $400 million in campaign money, and claiming to be eligible for the presidency but knowing that he was not. Berg further states that Obama committed a fraud by falsifying information on is Illinois State Bar Registration and Public Disciplinary Record, a claim which had been previously dissected and refuted here at America's Right.
The other defendants, too, have had a role in the fraud Berg alleges has been perpetrated against American citizens. Defendant Cortes, Berg says, failed to verify Obama's citizenship status prior to placing him on the ballot, and the congressional defendants have failed to investigate as well.
The DNC, FEC, Feinstein and the U.S. Senate Commission on Rules and Administration were and are well aware of Obama’s illegal activities, encouraging racial tension, encouraging violence, his fraudulent campaigning, fraudulently attempting to secure the position of President of the United States. Defendants have failed Plaintiff as they have not performed their duties so delegated to them pursuant to the Laws of our Country and their promises. Defendants have allowed an ineligible candidate to be nominated as President of the United States without performing due diligence in verifying Obama’s eligibility and/or investigating the fraudulent acts of Obama, for which Plaintiff has been damaged. Defendants have further allowed the illegal and fraudulent campaigning efforts of Obama to continue in an attempt to allow an ineligible candidate to serve as President of the United States in violation of our United States Constitution."The longer we wait, the more we do research, the more we learn," Berg said. "Listen, unless Barack Obama went through immigration after coming back from Indonesia, he's an illegal alien. An illegal alien. His school record shows that he was officially acknowledged by his stepfather. It is fraud, and I think it's a disgrace that Howard Dean hasn't researched it."
Berg was extremely hard on Dean, chairman of the DNC, suggesting that his failure to properly investigate the Democratic Party nominee was "outrageous," and that his role in avoiding the issues presented in the case against Obama reeks of "obstruction of justice."
In the amended complaint, Berg also adds a count against all defendants for alleged violation of the Freedom of Information Act, citing his rebuffed attempts to garner documentation and information pertaining to Obama's citizenship via subpoena.
Berg served subpoenas on the U.S. Embassy, Jakarta Indonesia, U.S. Embassy, Nairobi, Kenya, the U.S. State Department, the Federal Bureau of Information (FBI), the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), The Hawaii Department of Health, Kapi’olani Medical Center for Women and Children, Queens Medical Center, and the U.S. Senate Commission on Rules and Administration and has been refused in every case so far. With regard to the embassies, Berg received a letter stating that his subpoena requests were denied because he failed to show enough information, and failed to have Barack Obama provide his written authorization of the request pursuant to the Privacy Act.
Citing materials on the DNC Web site, Berg also asserts promissory estoppel, that damage and injury has been caused due to reasonable detrimental reliance upon "many promises to the American people" made by the organization, including "open, accountable and ethical government." Berg cites one portion in particular:
The DNC promises in their promotion of Obama, Page 53, “In Barack Obama’s Administration, we will open up the doors of democracy. We will use technology to make government more transparent, accountable, and inclusive. Rather than obstruct people’s use of the Freedom of Information Act, we will require that agencies conduct significant business in public and release all relevant information unless an agency reasonably foresees harm to a protected interest.”At the end of the day, much like he has been since filing the initial complaint on August 21, Philip Berg is seeking to avoid what he calls a "certain constitutional crisis" by asking the court to prevent Obama from seeking and obtaining the presidency. With this amended complaint, Berg is once again asking that the court:
- Order Barack Obama to prove his citizenship status and immediately turn over (1) a certified copy of his "vault" birth certificate, (2) certified copies of all reissued and sealed birth certificates in the names of Barack Hussein Obama, Barry Soetoro, Barry Obama, Barack Dunham and Barry Dunham, (3) a certified copy of his Oath of Allegiance taken upon age of majority, (4) any and all college admission forms, and (5) any and all documentation changing Obama's name from "Barry Soetoro" to "Barack Obama."
- Declare that Barack Obama (1) is not a U.S. "natural born" citizen, (2) is not a "naturalized" citizen, and (3) is still an Indonesian citizen.
- Declare that Barack Obama is ineligible to run for and hold the presidency of the United States of America.
- Order Barack Obama to be removed from the ballot in the presidential election "until his citizenship status can in fact be verified ensuring he is eligible to serve as president of the United States."
- Preliminarily and permanently enjoin--prevent--the Democratic National Committee and Pennsylvania Secretary Pedro Cortes from placing Barack Obama on the ballot until his citizenship status is proven and he is shown to be eligible to hold the presidency.
- Order the FEC, Diane Feinstein and the U.S. Senate Commission on Rules and Administration to "immediately open and conduct an investigation" into the "fraudulent tactics" and citizenship status of Barack Obama.
- Preliminarily and permanently enjoin Barack Obama from any further campaigning for the presidency until he is able to prove his citizenship status and eligibility to hold the office of president of the United States.
"I tell them that he obviously doesn't have the documents," Berg said. "People get that. I even had one caller tell me that he plans to relay the information to [Alaska Gov.] Sarah Palin. She's been hitting Obama hard this weekend, and she should go after this eligibility issue. I tell you, if the republicans have this information, if this is their 'October Surprise,' they'd better do something soon. We're headed toward a constitutional crisis in America, and look at the markets ... we've got enough on our hands."
Still, this democrat isn't waiting for the GOP to act.
"Barack Obama promotes himself as the candidate for change. Well, he does want change. He wants the rules to apply to other people and not to himself," Berg said. "We're going to win this one way or another. I have a good feeling. We're going to make a little history with Obama, and I want to be there when they handcuff him."
Handcuff him, I asked. Isn't that a little harsh?
"Listen," Berg said, briefly chuckling at my question, "if he has the documents, produce them already!"
The full text of the amended complaint--remember, if Berg is correct, leave to file must still be granted by the court--is available by clicking HERE.
Keep checking America's Right for updates.


61 comments:
Thanks for keeping us up to speed. Here is a link to the motion.
http://www.filepanda.com/file/h3t9uoynsmou/
Files should be here:
http://www.filepanda.com/file/h3t9uoynsmou/
Thank you so very much, Jeff, for keeping us so legally updated. I appreciate being able to check your site each day to see what is happening with Berg's lawsuit. I also get to read your other informative articles too. (When I can squint enough to read the smaller print. :)) Tanya in CT
I'm a neophyte here. What does this mean? I thought we were waiting on the judges ruling on the motion to dismiss? Is this good or bad for the case? Did the judge request this amendement because he agrees with the core accusation and just wants more detail for his ruling? Have the Democrats or Berg been interacting with the Judge this whole time or just waiting? Or does this mean Berg thinks the Judge is going to rule against him and is just bolstering his case for the appeal? Someone please explain.
If Berg is seeking to avoid a "certain constitutional crisis," then why is he delaying the process with this amended complaint which adds new parties and new accusations when the election is now less than a month away?
Personally I don't believe Berg ever intended for this case to be adjudicated in a court of law.
I think he just spent a few hours on the Internet, carelessly tossed whatever he could dredge up into his original complaint (which included reference to a fake Canadian birth certificate signed by Dudley Doright), plunked down his $350 filing fee and hoped that because an official filing in a court of law would give it an air of legitimacy, the press would do the rest for him and this would all take care of itself in the court of public opinion.
k
Thank you Jeff for all you are doing!
The fact that Obama has not addressed this issue speaks volumes. It is obvious that people are talking about it. Why doesn't he produce the documents? Why has he never released his college records? I think Berg should not wait for the judge to rule. Go right to the Supreme Court. This is too important an issue. Both Democrats and Republicans deserve a viable candidate in this election.
>>because an official filing in a court of law would give it an air of legitimacy, the press would do the rest for him and this would all take care of itself in the court of public opinion.>>
You're joking, right? The press is so in the tank for Obama that they wouldn't report it if it were found that he'd lied, cheated and stole his election to office in Illinois.
Oh yeah...that's a possibility. Haven't heard it, have you!
-----QUESTION-----I thought we were waiting on the judges ruling on the motion to dismiss? Is this good or bad for the case? ----_
I don't think it's either "good" or "bad" for the case – it's just what Berg felt he needed to do.
It may, however, delay any ruling on the case. Under FRCP 15(3), the current defendants now have 10 days to respond to his motion. (FRCP 15(3) http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/Rule15.htm). They may decide to file sooner, like Berg did with his opposition to their motion – or to file on the 10th day. They could decide not to respond to it, but I doubt that that will happen. I suspect that they will file an Opposition. I suspect that they will file an Opposition to refut Berg's "new" arguments. The Opposition will serve as a surreply to his Opposition to their original motion, as well as an opposition to this new motion. IF that happens, then the judge won't rule on the Motion(s) until sometime after October 16.
HOWEVER, as Jeff noted in his article, "because this motion for leave to amend was filed by Berg after the defendants filed the motion to dismiss for failure to state a claim upon on which relief can be granted, Judge Surrick could deny leave if he believes that Berg still cannot state a proper claim."
So, if the Judge were inclined to dismiss the case, he might do so without any responsive papers from Obama/DNC.
IF the judge *denies* the Obama/DNC motion to dismiss and *grants* Berg's leave to amend, then the current parties will have another 10 days to respond to the amended complaint, and the "new" federal government parties will have 60 days to respond. I'm not sure how long the new state government parties will have to respond – maybe Jeff can answer that question.
I was wondering if John McCain and Palin knows about this lawsuit. Maybe they could get it out to the public since the media won't touch it.
Handcuff him? YES Let's have a BBQ.
I read about Obama for year, I know that Obama is big trouble, and I want him in Big Trouble. And DNC,Senate, FEC,FBI,CIA.
I want an American President that grew up in USA not in Muslim country. I'm not brightest star like Obama, but I know that he shouldn't in our government. The government lets down. And I hope that Obama would be behind bars.
DNC should've nominate HRC not imposter. He must've bought the delegates too.
Thank you Jeff for your great writing. It helped me and I'm sure other readers.
Sign a petition on this http://www.rallycongress.com/constitutional-qualification/1244/stop-obama-constitutional-crisis/
Is the judge dragging his heels just to let time play out? Is there any limit to the amount of time the judge has to either dismiss or move on with this case?
Off thread to Tanya. I know what you mean about fine print! try:
hold control while moving scroll wheel to Increase/decrease size
or look at bottom right of screen and click on 100% to increase page and print size.
Thanks, Jeff. I'm addicted to your updates as this lawsuit seems the best way to keep the Obamination out of the White House and spare our country further chastisement for its many sins.
Pat in NC wrote:
Is the judge dragging his heels just to let time play out?
It's clearly Berg who is letting time play out with this filing of an amended complaint.
With this filing, he's just set this up for a potential delay of more than 10 days if the judge grants it (i.e. time for the judge to decided to grant it and up to 10 days for Obama and the DNC to respond once he does).
If time is of the essence, and if he ever had a case to begin with, why would he do this?
Again, I suspect he's never had any intention of this playing out in court.
k
According to this website (http://hillbuzz.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/america-get-ready-to-meet-barry-soetoro/), and others, the Republicans have "Barry Soetoro's" birth certificate: "It seems Obama WAS adopted by his stepfather, taking Soetoro’s last name, and Barry as his first name. A new birth certificate in Hawaii was issued at the time of the adoption." Apparently, in accords of adoption law, his original birth certificate was sealed (if there was one). Anytime a person refuses to co-operate with an offical investigation it automatically makes them seem guilty! this controversey has the potential to destroy the U.S. more than any terrorist act, and knowing how finnacialy weak we are at the moment (with more problems to come) the likelihood of a real terrorist strike, somewhere we cannot respond to, goes up!
I'm going to have to agree with koyaan here. Berg looks more and more like he's trying to throw things against the wall and see if they stick. I honestly think he figures he has a win-win situation, either the judge allows the case to proceed, (doubtful, he still hasn't shown standing), or it gets tossed out.
If it gets tossed out, it won't change the minds of the people who have a "guilty before being proven guilty" in regards to this matter. They've already decided that Sen. Obama is guilty of something, they just don't know what yet. And there is NO level of evidence that will convince them otherwise.
Am calling all Christians to say a daily prayer that God will shine the light of TRUTH regarding this to the American people and that the spell the antichrist Obama has on the lost souls of this Country is broke and he finds himself in a cell rotting for all the deceit he is wrapped in.
Jeff,
I know you must be terribly busy and tired.
But please take a moment to look at this post.
There is a question for you regarding Berg, Techdude and Polarik.
Thank you.
http://rosettasister.wordpress.com/
4:45 p.m. — Obama, DNC File Motion for Leave to File Protective Order (Phil Berg v Barack Obama) Updated
(I would have posted a longer comment here, but I feared it would go straight to spam.)
Thank you so much for the updates Jeff! I feel so frustrated that this issue has been ignored in the MSM!
Politically, I don't know that there is any way that McCain can respond because there are substantial questions relating to his own legitimacy to be president. The way I understand it, he at least has an Act of Congress supporting his claim to legitimacy. Barry has just been ignored by anybody willing to investigate. It is interesting that his attorneys moved to block discovery. As Berg has maintained.... if Barry has nothing to hide, then why doesn't he provide the information?
Rosetta,
I see it, and I think Berg is aware as well. At this point, the issue is the VAULT birth certificate...
Thanks for reading.
Jeff
Hey Pat,
I think the American people would be willing to accept a certified copy of the original "vault" copy of the Obama's birth certificate. Really, Pat, what is the big deal?? Why doesn't he just produce his proof? That would be the first thing I or anyone else would produce without any hesitation. Are you an Obamabot?
It is not in the press because this is all made up. Obama is obviously an American. The one with a legitimate issue is McCain - he was born outside the states. Obama is not challenging this.
You are simply trying to undermine Obama's standing with all this tripe. You need to understand that in America, freedom of speech is not only a right, it is a responsibility.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Because, my friends, you will reap what you sow.
This just shows how far you can go with a bogus motion based on Internet rumors, anonymous bloggers and a Canadian birth certificate signed by "Dudley Doright."
I am astounded at the number of people who think this thing has legs. Berg couldn't win a zoning easement with the flying-saucer conspiracy BS he cites in his filings. Apparently, it doesn't matter to Jeffrey that Berg could
file a similar motion against him, on the assumption that Jeffrey MIGHT be a Martian, a female impersonator or a robot from the future.
In the law biz, we call these things "nuisance suits." At this point, I can only assume the judge is giving him enough rope to qualify for disbarment.
Listen, my anonymous law-trained friend,
While I think there might be something to your assessment that the judge may be giving Berg enough rope to hang himself, when have I attested to the veracity of his claims. If anything, I've done my best to be fair here.
I DO think the case will be tossed, but until it is, I plan to treat it as it is -- active.
That's all.
Thanks for reading, and feel free to tell me if any of my assessments of the rules are wrong. I'm new at this, remember.
Jeff
The Judge granted Berg Preliminary "Standing" based on something, what changed? DNC and Obama have filed for a Motion to dismiss. Now based on all I have read and seen this is by no means a curve ball to the Judge. This was telegraphed weeks ago and yet its been over a week to rule on the Motion, how is this possible. There is no shocking new info in the Motion of dismissal or amazing wording to confuse Judge. He should already of tossed these ideas around in his head and had internal discussions on how to proceed considering the scope-magnitude of this hearing not to mention the obvious time line which is undoubtedly Nov. 4th. I am beginning to wonder if he's in the game of resolution, or the game of procrastination. I am no lawyer or Judge but I can tell you as a thinking human being this would be front and center of my every thought, everyday, all the time if I were him. Either say no dismissal or yes dismissal pronto or he is becoming part of the problem. I can not think of a good reason this isn't moving faster then it is, unless he is holding it up. DNC and Obama can only file motions, its the Judge were waiting on. If I am incorrect then PLEASE INFORM US. This is absolutely RIDICULOUS >:( !!!!!! Over a week to make decision knowing ahead of time what DNC and Obama were going to do is shameful and disrespectful to all of us. If Berg hadn't filed for expediency I can't even imagine how long this would take; or would it, who knows. What PO's me more is the obvious answer were all use to "That's the way it works" "That's the way court system is designed" "Its not his fault cause his hands are tied" "He's doing all he can do" these and many more excuses are unacceptable in this situation. Call this Judge and tell him to grow a pair and "GET THE JOB DONE BEFORE YOU PUT THIS COUNTRY IN ABSOLUTE CIVIL WAR"
"Really, Pat, what is the big deal?? Why doesn't he just produce his proof? That would be the first thing I or anyone else would produce without any hesitation."
And if he did, within 24 hours "Polarik" would come up with another half-baked theory to explain it away again. Followed by Berg and the rest of what has been called the "Cult of the COLB". There is no level of evidence that will make them happy.
Look at the current amended complaint filed today. Berg was saying in "World Net Daily" and in section 60 of said amended complaint that he asked for "a
genuine certified copy of his original long version “vault” Birth Certificate, A Certification of Citizenship and a certified copy of his Oath of Allegiance."
However, two of those items would not now or ever exist for someone who was born a citizen, only someone who it naturalized. There is no evidence that in the eyes of US law, either Stanley Ann Durham or Barack Obama ever lost their US citizenship. And even if his mother had, under US law, Barack Obama would not have. And despite what Berg seems to claim, Indonesian law would not have trumped US law.
Demanding a "A Certification of Citizenship and a certified copy of his Oath of Allegiance" is a gotcha request, nothing more. And a copy HAS been provided of his COLB, which officials of the State of Hawaii have confirmed is legit. But for those who don't want to believe it is, let me put it to you this way.....
.....Tomorrow a burning bush could appear in the judges chambers, with a sealed envelope containing the official birth certificate along with foot-high letters of flame saying "It's real, give it a rest already - God".
And people would STILL choose not to believe it.
Look at Berg's website. Like Jeff, he posted a disclaimer to the rumour that the judge ruled against the dismissal. Berg himself said no ruling has taken place. Yet the need and desire to believe it had been ruled against was so strong people were arguing with Berg and his assistant that no, really it had been ruled against.
Like I said, no amount of evidence will convince people otherwise.
Wow, such drama. I stopped following this for a couple of weeks. I like Berg. I too demand proof, and I too would fight to the last Appeal. I would like to see Clarence Thomas deliberate on this since Obama 'dissed' him publicly in that first forum. I am posting this link to my twitter.com page for more exposure.
If this reaches all the way to the Supreme Court, then Obama will have to face a conservative majority who may not be predisposed to let him off so easily on the question of whether he should be considered a natural born citizen or not given his family history. I'd love to see Obama and his lawyer answer questions from Clarence Thomas. Judge Surrick can of course save them the trouble by at least approving Berg's motion for expedited discovery.
Even if the current court "dsmissES" Berg's lawsuit for lack of standing or some other reason, I suspect the lawsuit and the questions raised therein will not promptly go away. Berg will no doubt appeal the dismissal.
The doubts raised in the Berg lawsuit will contnue and grow and fester until Obama produces his "vault" birth certificate (which would show the witnesses to his birth) estabishing that he was born in Hawaii. Continuing doubts, if any, would be effectively stilled by court certified experts (as well as the MSM) able to certify in short order that the produced document/s is/are authentic.
Given the troublesome allegatons in the Berg suit (which give voice to legitmate doubts many voters have as to Obama's elgibility to become POTUS), he probably also needs to prove -- to the satisfaction of the court and the invstigative arm of the MSM -- that he has not "lost" his natural born US citizenship status through actions taken as an adult that affirm his duel citizenship as either or both a Kenyan and/or Indonesian citizen. A signfcant step in that regard can be taken if Obama were to release his passport informaton on his travels, including his trip to Pakistan in 1981, as the Berg suit alleges that he traveled as an Indonesian citizen even after he reached adulthood.
If Obama were not so "secretive" and unclear and downright confusing about significant parts of his background, and/or if the MSM were willing to discuss the problem and openly vet him on the issue, the problem could be promptly laid to rest.
OBAMA NEEDS TO DO FOLLOW MCCAIN'S LEAD HERE. HE NEEDS TO BE OPEN AND HONEST AND FORTHCOMING ABOUT ALL INFORMATION RELATING TO HIS CITIZENSHIP QUESTIONS AND SEEK AND WELCOME AN OFFICIAL OR QUASI-OFFICAL, PUBLIC DETERMINATION OF THE ISSUE.
posted by erika
PatGund, at the time was born indonesia did not recognize a dual citizenship with the USA. As a result of that the USA would not have recognized dual citizenship with Indonesia. Indonesian law does not US law, rather it's a case of the State Dep't. imposing a policy of "tit-for-tat". Do it to me and I'll do it back. The diplomatic situation then was not a friendly one, and the law at that time is the determining factor.
And, the COLB that is available on the internet and has been the subject of so much scrutiny, has NOT been authenticated by the Hawaaii Dep't. of Health or any other official of that state. The records clerk is the only person in Hawaaii that has made any comment at all regarding that COLB, and she stated that it seemed to be the same as those issued by the state, and the info on it seemed to look authentic, but she could not officially declare it valid as a)she is not authorized to issue such claims one way or the other, and b)she would need to make a much closer and more detailed examination of the proposed COLB, and then verify the series ID number, seal and signature, and similar aspects with the document on record.
There is no evidence anywhere so far that Obama was born in the USA that can be substantiated. That is the only issue. The request for documents that would only exist if he were naturalized is to have that request on record if Obama fails to provide proof he is a natural born citizen. If the vault copy of his birth cert. is provided and authenticated by Hawaaii as valid the request for the other documents is moot.
But, no amount of evidence is going to convince you otherwise.
Glenn Flowers
I see in the news that Jerome Corsi has been detained in Kenya:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081007/ap_on_re_af/af_kenya_obama_author_detained
Obama has had 47 years to cover his tracks.
Justice delayed is justice denied.
Has anyone tried taking this to their local media? I've emailed it to Fox News and I've seen others posting that they've done the same, but no coverage yet.
I'm going to contact my local tv and radio stations today and give them the info. Maybe that's the way to get this in the news.
Jeff, You don't seem to think this case is going forward. Why? Is it because Berg can't show that he was hurt by this,or because you don't believe the allegations?
It's not that I don't believe this case is going forward (I do), I just feel as though it will get tossed from District Court.
The Supreme Court interpreted voter standing rules in different ways on different cases -- just look at the White Primary Cases. There is no reason that they cannot take a look at this as a new issue.
Read the commentary I wrote on who has standing. It might explain my position a little bit.
When it comes to the updates, however, I'm trying my best to be objective, to present arguments from both sides -- perhaps I am overcompensating a little bit, but I'd like to think that I'm being fair.
In the meantime, thank you for reading. Feel free to send me an e-mail with any specific concerns, too, okay?
-- Jeff
You know, Judge (on Fox's Brian and the Judge) just answered a callers question on the Berg case. He answered the callers question by saying that Obama CAN be a citizen of as many nations as he wants, as long as he was born in Hawaii as he claims.
Is this true? This can't be true, can it? How can this country afford to have a President that has DUAL loyalties?
"When it comes to the updates, however, I'm trying my best to be objective, to present arguments from both sides -- perhaps I am overcompensating a little bit, but I'd like to think that I'm being fair."
You *have* been fair Jeff. Like I said before, I may not agree with you politically 90% of the time, (that's what I get for being a gun-owning die-hard moderate).
And the more I look at the Berg lawsuit the more I can't see how on earth it has any chance at all.
But you have been reasonably fair in your discussion of it, and that's something I've tried to communicate in my writings on the subject.
Best of luck!
Pat,
You're a gun-owning die-hard moderate, I'm a gun-toting conservative. We're probably closer than you think!
By the way, while this may not be enough to get it's own post, there has been some minor updates with regard to the Berg case...
UPDATES:
1. Somebody filed a pair of motions to intervene. I haven't looked at them yet, but by all accounts they're total crap, just like the Mitchell intervening effort. Unless there's anything substantive or even interesting in there, this will be the extent that I cover it.
2. One of my contacts at the courthouse called to let me know that she just fielded a phone call from a very interested reporter at the Washington Post. So, it's out there, people...
-- Jeff
jeff schreiber wrote:
Read the commentary I wrote on who has standing. It might explain my position a little bit.
But even if one were to grant that Berg has standing, why would the court choose to intervene at this point?
As Robinson points out, there are a number of means by which issues of eligibility may be address other than by the courts.
First, there are the voters, who if they feel Obama is not eligible, can choose to not vote for him.
Second, there are the electors, who may consider eligibility when it comes to casting their votes (which some people need to be reminded are the only votes that actually count when it comes to electing our President).
And finally, statute provides for Congress to challenge any of the electoral votes which may be cast for Obama.
Why should the court step in an effectively short circuit these processes?
The best argument against this notion can be found in the motion to dismiss filed by McCain, the RNC and the California Republican party in Robinson v. Bowen:
Motion to Dismiss, Robinson v. Bowen
Read page 6 starting at line 14 trough page 8 ending at line 22.
k
PatGund, First, your views just don't seem moderate. Your writings evidence that you are clearly leaning in favor of Obama.
Re your lengthy analyis and commentary about the COLB, etc., really not necessary. Look, IT'S VERY SIMPLE -- all Obama's lawyer had to do was attach a certified copy of the birth certificate with the motion to dismiss and/or the protective order filed yesterday at 4:45 p.m. THE END that would be it!!!! Anyone from the public could examine the court file to view the certified birth certificate.
Furthermore, given the fact the authenticity of the COLB has been called in to question, it would be more than logical to simply put the matter to rest, with the certified copy of the birth certificate.
Regarding your statement: "There is no evidence that in the eyes of US law, either Stanley Ann Durham or Barack Obama ever lost their US citizenship. And even if his mother had, under US law, Barack Obama would not have. And despite what Berg seems to claim, Indonesian law would not have trumped US law." Pat, you, state this so dogmatically, with such authority. YOU ARE NOT THE COURT AND DO NOT HAVE THE ULTIMATE SAY ON INTERPRETING THE FINAL DETERMINATION!!!
My favorite quote is inscribed on the front of the NY Public library on 5th Avenue: "But above all things TRUTH beareth away the VICTORY"
PAT, let's just have the truth!
You're a gun-owning die-hard moderate, I'm a gun-toting conservative. We're probably closer than you think!
*Laugh* Well, I go out to the range with a batch of people ranging all up and down the political landscape, so not a surprise in the least to me.
Somebody filed a pair of motions to intervene. I haven't looked at them yet, but by all accounts they're total crap, just like the Mitchell intervening effort. Unless there's anything substantive or even interesting in there, this will be the extent that I cover it.
T. Bradley's? Just finished reading them. "Total Crap" is a good way to describe them.
Pat,
Actually, "total crap" might not be the best way to describe the first one, as many of the assertions and allegations are shared with Berg's action.
Still, I firmly believe that we need to focus on the case in chief, and that's why you'll see these intervening motions treated as I treat them.
Jeff
Koyaan, I agree that there are other ways to handle this other than the courts, except most people don't know about Bergs allegations. I have been waiting to see if any of the drivebys would mention it. I'm still waiting, and it's been months. The mainstream is in the tank for Obama. Congress is controled by the Dems. I have no faith that they would do the constutional thing.
Why hasn't Obama submitted a certified copy of his Birth Certificate to the court and end this case. I hope and pray that Mr. Berg is successful in his suit and is able to stop Obama. Clearly, he is not a citizen of the United States - and therefore not eligible to be the President of the United States. GOD's speed Mr. Berg.
Anonymous wrote:
Re your lengthy analyis and commentary about the COLB, etc., really not necessary. Look, IT'S VERY SIMPLE -- all Obama's lawyer had to do was attach a certified copy of the birth certificate with the motion to dismiss and/or the protective order filed yesterday at 4:45 p.m. THE END that would be it!!!!
If you had taken some time and actually read Berg's suit, it would be clear to you that this is NOT true and that it would NOT end the case.
Berg himself makes this point quite clear himself when he says:
Even if Obama was, in fact, born in Hawaii, he lost his U.S. citizenship when his mother re-married and moved to Indonesia with her Indonesian husband.
So for all of those who keep saying that all Obama has to do is provide a copy of his birth certificate and all this will be over, please stop saying it because it simply isn't true.
k
koyaan,
Re your statement: "If you had taken some time and actually read Berg's suit, it would be clear to you that this is NOT true and that it would NOT end the case."
DON'T assume! Please, OF COURSE, I've read Berg's S&C, Brief in support thereof, Amended Complaint, etc. I've spent too much time on this...
Koyaan, my point is that, had Obama's counsel simply provided a certified copy of Obama's birth certificate, this would more than likely meet the prima facie threshold for legitimizing either a dismissal and/or the protective order filed yesterday at 4:45 p.m. Similarly, perhaps this prima facie documentary evidence would thwart any probable appeal to the Third Circuit Court of Appeals.
Direct case-in-point, in the lawsuit brought against McCain in California, in the Judge's Decision & Order dismissing that suit, part of his case law and analysis of relevant statutes, clearly sets forth that, notwithstanding his (the Judge's ruling), Senator McCain is a natural born citizen.
John Lavelle (Obama's lead attorney, and more than likely, friend/acquaintance of Michelle Obama (both graduated from Princeton and Harvard law the same years)) providing this basic proof of Obama's natural born status would undoubtedly, put this all to rest.
However, I do concede that if Obama was indeed adopted by his Indonesian stepfather, and if Berg's allegations are correct with respect to his interpretation of U.S., international laws, etc., that, basically, result in Obama losing his U.S. citizenship upon his adoption by Lolo Soetoro, and, if it is also true that Obama still retained his Indonesion citizeship, eg, using his Indonesian passport when traveling to Pakistan when he was 20 (which I believe Obama documents his use of his Indonesian passport in one of his own books), and, subsquently, if Obama never took the oath of allegiance upon his return to the U.S., THEN, BARACK OBAMA HAS A MAJOR PROBLEM!!! (Whew, I know that was an incredibly long run on but I had to get that out)
My whole things is, just let the TRUTH come out -- whatever that truth may be!! Of course, the question on everyone's mind: WHY DOESN'T OBAMA JUST SIMPLY PROVIDE THE PROOF, even if it goes beyond simply providing the certified copy of his birth certificate!!!
POSTED BY: George
Regardless of the outcome, this case obviously raises questions of the utmost importance to our nation. I for one am furious at the media black-out regarding this issue.
It's not like this case was immediately tossed. We Americans have the right to have access to the questions as they are being raised instead of just being spoonfed answers after the fact. (if they would even do that much)
Our flag is not entirely red yet and we deserve better.
p.s. thank you Jeff for all your hard work!
The key to Berg's case cannot be the ultimate eligibility or lack thereof to be President. The Court has no role in that process. The Constitution clearly describes that role to House of Representatives sitting as a special body of States.
The key is the potential fraudulent or derelict behavior exhibited by the parties cited responsible for the financial affairs of his campaign or tasked with organizing elections.
No citizen has standing to challenge the eligibility of a President-elect for the Presidency. However, a citizen does have standing to challenge an organization in which he was a member of fairly high standing with financial fraud and has standing to demand organs of government do their job.
A procedural question, Can the Judge order expedited discovery with in camera inspection?
JP
George wrote:
Koyaan, my point is that, had Obama's counsel simply provided a certified copy of Obama's birth certificate, this would more than likely meet the prima facie threshold for legitimizing either a dismissal and/or the protective order filed yesterday at 4:45 p.m. Similarly, perhaps this prima facie documentary evidence would thwart any probable appeal to the Third Circuit Court of Appeals.
First, if Berg doesn't have standing, then any attorney would be derelict in their duty if they did anything but file a motion to dismiss for lack of standing.
Second, why should Obama capitulate to someone who just cobbled together a bunch of crap he'd found on the Internet and haphazardly tossed it into a federal lawsuit against Obama?
Berg offers not one shred of credible evidence that Obama was born anywhere other than Hawaii, not one shred of credible evidence that the certification that's already been published is anything but a genuine copy from the Hawaiian Department of Heath, and not one shred of credible evidence that Obama has ever lost his US citizenship.
Why should he lend Berg any sort of undeserved credibility by capitulating?
Direct case-in-point, in the lawsuit brought against McCain in California, in the Judge's Decision & Order dismissing that suit, part of his case law and analysis of relevant statutes, clearly sets forth that, notwithstanding his (the Judge's ruling), Senator McCain is a natural born citizen.
But that case didn't involve any demands on McCain to produce his birth certificate nor did it involve unsubstantiated claims that the birth certificate McCain offered to the public was a forgery. The case was purely a statutory one.
However, I do concede that if Obama was indeed adopted by his Indonesian stepfather, and if Berg's allegations are correct with respect to his interpretation of U.S., international laws, etc., that, basically, result in Obama losing his U.S. citizenship upon his adoption by Lolo Soetoro, and, if it is also true that Obama still retained his Indonesion citizeship, eg, using his Indonesian passport when traveling to Pakistan when he was 20 (which I believe Obama documents his use of his Indonesian passport in one of his own books), and, subsquently, if Obama never took the oath of allegiance upon his return to the U.S., THEN, BARACK OBAMA HAS A MAJOR PROBLEM!!!
If, if, if, if, if.
Again, Berg hasn't produced one shred of credible evidence that Obama was born anywhere but Hawaii.
My whole things is, just let the TRUTH come out -- whatever that truth may be!! Of course, the question on everyone's mind: WHY DOESN'T OBAMA JUST SIMPLY PROVIDE THE PROOF, even if it goes beyond simply providing the certified copy of his birth certificate!!!
Obama has already provided both a scanned image as well as photographs of his certification of birth. And as I said, Berg has not offered up one single shred of credible evidence that it is anything other than a bona fide certification of birth issued by the Hawaiian Department of Health, stating that he was born in Honolulu, Hawaii.
k
Koyaan,
I may not have the time to fully respond to your post, but, in the interim...
Obama's counsel would have been derelict to not move for dismissal for lack of standing, however, they are equally derelict in prolonging, unnecessarily, the disposition of this case by not bringing this case to a close by simply providing a certified copy of Obama's birth certificate. Particularly, in light of the supposed examination of Obama's COLB by 3 independent forensics experts who allegedly are claiming it is a forgery. Lavelle and company have a moral and ethical obligation to uphold the laws of our land, and that includes the intent of our founding fathers when they drew up the Constitution. It WAS NOT the intent of our founding fathers to have a matter of such a grave nature as our president being a natural born American, dismissed on a mere legal technicality, i.e., lack of standing. That would be DESPICABLE and a travesty of justice!!!
We, the American people, should just blindly accept the authenticity of a certificate of live birth, JUST because YOU say so! I DON'T THINK SO. WHY on earth is it a COLB and NOT a birth certificate posted on Obama's web site. This is a rhetorical question, PLEASE, do not make a futile attempt to regurgitate what I've already read and reread AD NAUSEUM from the Obama camp.
McCain, may not have been requested to produce his birth certificate (however, I'm not certain because I haven't read the document requests), but, nonetheless, the Judge in that case evidently felt compelled, or, that it was judicially prudent, to put the question of McCain's natural born status to rest, by interpreting the relevant laws at the time of McCain's birth deeming him indeed a natural born American.
Koyaan, it is obvious where you stand on the matter. YOU are NOT the ultimate authority on the matter. The COURTS will decide this matter, even it it goes beyond the Third Circuit Court of Appeals up to the Supreme Court. And, yes, of course, I'm well aware that, tragically, Berg's case may be disposed of well before it even reaches that level.
LET the TRUTH prevail!!! WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL FOR OBAMA TO JUST PRODUCE A CERTIFIED COPY OF HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE???? Koyaan, PLEASE, do answer this question, as this is NOT a rhetorical question.
POSTED BY: George
George wrote:
Obama's counsel would have been derelict to not move for dismissal for lack of standing, however, they are equally derelict in prolonging, unnecessarily, the disposition of this case by not bringing this case to a close by simply providing a certified copy of Obama's birth certificate.
This is a complete contradiction.
You agree that they would be derelict for moving to dismiss for lack of standing, but say they are also derelict for not complying to the demands of the person who doesn't necessarily have standing to bring the demands in the first place.
Particularly, in light of the supposed examination of Obama's COLB by 3 independent forensics experts who allegedly are claiming it is a forgery.
Sorry, but this is just a load of crap.
There haven't been "3 independent forensics experts." There has only been one fraud who fabricated his analysis and another who has no business talking about graphics an imaging.
Their "analysis" never passed the giggle test and the claims of both have been rather thoroughly debunked.
This is just another example of how Berg exercised virtually no due diligence here.
Lavelle and company have a moral and ethical obligation to uphold the laws of our land, and that includes the intent of our founding fathers when they drew up the Constitution.
Who says they haven't? At this point there is no credible evidence that Obama was born anywhere but Hawaii.
It WAS NOT the intent of our founding fathers to have a matter of such a grave nature as our president being a natural born American, dismissed on a mere legal technicality, i.e., lack of standing. That would be DESPICABLE and a travesty of justice!!!
What was NOT the intent of our founding fathers was to have one branch of government take it upon itself to usurp the powers of another branch of government by short circuiting processes already in place.
And that's precisely what Berg is asking for here.
There is already a process for all of this.
First, there are the state laws concerning who may be eligible to be on the various state ballots.
Second, there are the voters who may choose not to vote for a candidate if they have questions as to their qualifications.
Third, there are the electors who may also consider a candidate's qualifications when casting their votes before Congress.
Fourth, there is Congress who may challenge the votes of any electors casting votes for a candidate who may not qualify.
And finally, the Twentieth Amendment anticipates the possibility of this happening and states who shall act as President until a candidate has qualified.
Berg is effectively asking the court to short circuit this process.
Koyaan, it is obvious where you stand on the matter. YOU are NOT the ultimate authority on the matter. The COURTS will decide this matter, even it it goes beyond the Third Circuit Court of Appeals up to the Supreme Court. And, yes, of course, I'm well aware that, tragically, Berg's case may be disposed of well before it even reaches that level.
What would be tragic would be for the court to short circuit processes which have already been laid out by statute and the Constitution.
What you're wanting to have done here is tantamount to having the court step in and declare a piece of legislation unconstitutional before it was ever voted on in Congress or signed by the President.
LET the TRUTH prevail!!! WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL FOR OBAMA TO JUST PRODUCE A CERTIFIED COPY OF HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE???? Koyaan, PLEASE, do answer this question, as this is NOT a rhetorical question.
Because he's already presented a certification of birth which itself says "serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding" and there has not been one shred of evidence indicating that that document is anything other than genuine.
k
koyaan,
I won't be so arrogant to say that you're wrong... But your analysis may be incomplete, inaccurate and flawed, and biased -- I do not believe YOUR interpretation of a supposed mechanism already existing to deal with the subject matter of the Berg lawsuit is correct. As a matter of fact, I believe that this is one of those areas in the Constitution which would require interpretation by the Courts in conjunction with relevant statutes, provisions, and case law.
Additionally, there is the issue that there is really no statutory or case law precedent that would be directly on point to resolve the subject matter of the Berg lawsuit. Therefore, the Berg lawsuit could serve as the catalyst necessary for the Courts to set that precedent, albeit for the FIRST time. There's nothing wrong with that -- SOMEONE HAS TO BE FIRST IN TERMS OF SETTING THE PRECEDENT FOR RESOLVING SUCH AN EXTREMELY IMPORTANT ISSUE AS NATURAL BORN STATUS TO QUALIFY BEING POTUS. AND, OF COURSE, THE JUDICIARY IS WELL WITHIN ITS BOUNDS TO SET THAT PRECEDENT!! Otherwise, where would our country be with respect to civil rights, desegregation, Roe v. Wade, etc.
Re YOUR opinion of OBAMA'S COLB - that's simply your personal opinion. Where is the EVIDENCE, the names of those debunking the opinions of the 3 independent forensics experts??
I WILL RELY ON THE COURTS' EVALUATION OF OBAMA'S COLB and other issues, NOT your PERSONAL OPINION.
I DO NOT think that your analysis of procedures YOU BELIEVE are already in place to deal with the subject matter of the Berg lawsuit is as clear cut as you are trying to make it out to be. If that were the case, the Court would certainly have ruled by now.
The outcome of the Berg action will be determined by the Courts (including 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals and U.S. Supreme) NOT YOU!!! If Berg loses he loses. We will have to wait and see!
I will reiterate that the intent of our founding fathers when they drew up provisions concerning the natural born requirement for POTUS, was NOT to have that prerequiste merely swept under the carpet by some hypertechnical loophole alleging lack of standing.
It is up to the COURTS to make that FINAL DETERMINATION!!
POSTED BY: George
koyaan,
Seriously man your a smart guy, but would you honestly believe in Bigfoot or UFO's based solely on a picture on someones website? The Obama campaign suggests you should, that's a problem. I think the Judge is a Law man first but a Thinking Human Being as well. I have yet to get away with presenting a Polaroid of my COLB or my Drivers License to obtain anything.
Cutting to the chase, you law folk can take years, I need just a few moments.
;) kmmaraxus
Would it be better if the case was Berg, on behalf of the people of the United States of America, Plaintiff, vs. blah, blah, blah?
I mean, no grounds for a claim? Pshaw! The entire country is at stake! I'd say that's definite grounds for a claim.
Mandy from Alaska
To Koyann and several others who like to put the impression out there that Berg is simply trolling and doesn't seem to know the law.
UH, HELLO! Did we MISS THE PART WHERE HE WAS THE DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE STATE OF PA???
That in and of itself hooks him into the 'old boy' network in PA.
So, stuff yourselves until you can GRASP THE FACT that BERG is not only real, knows his stuff, and will pursue this to the ends of the earth.
I will repeat what has been asked here so many times. WHAT DOES OBAMA HAVE TO HIDE? McCAIN has been an 'open book' when it comes to ALL this type of stuff. Right down to his wife, Cindy to admit she had a drug addiction problem and threw herself on the mercy of the courts. NONE OF THAT IS HIDDEN.
NONE OF IT.
So I ask all you Obama supporters, WHY IS HE HIDING ANY OF THIS? HMMM?
So what if Obama is an illegal alien. Very soon there will be more illegal aliens than citizens domiciled in the U.S. and they need a voice for change and hope (hope for an amnesty) Illegal aliens are God's children and so is Obama.
Lucifer was God's child as well. Just because God created something does not mean it is free from corruption. Obama is not made from the type of material we want to run our country unless you are severely under the influence and oblivious to all of what his true beliefs are.
I live in Ohio and I am listening to a talk show on the radio. It is really finally starting to get people talking about Obamas hidden agenda and citizenship. Most of the time when people would call in the radio show and try to talk about it they were told that story has been around along time so lets not go there..Now people are calling into the show all day and they are talking and scared of this man...thanks Jeff for keeping us updated
jeff this is important. I took this off the puma pac blog.
prowlland 11.21.08 at 2:11 pm
I’m suerryou have been asked this before but here it goes again:
If your one of those that downloads youtube ,you maybe sitting on something that is of the utmost importance…
it’s a youtube that we think was named “what Obama doesn’t want you to know”…….
It was a side view of an Obama -Keyes debate 2004… it was the number 2 debate…it was shot from Keyes side and Obama was in the background…
As they were going on break Keyes said to Obama ” your not even a natural born citizen “… Obama says ” Oh that’s ok i’m not running for president anyway i’m running for senator. If you think you saw that and or downloaded on you pc… it is needed by the Mr. Keyes attorney…
It wasn’t a media tape it was tape by an individual. They said if you watched it might be on your hard drive… that i would have no idea…
contact me and ill get it to them.
Actually if we can find that video fo Obama admitting he is not a natural born citizen then it should be given to Leo Donofrio who is at the Supreme Court level right now. it should get to the SCOTUS for their review on Dec 5.
time is critical for this important constitutional crisis.
(When I can squint enough to read the smaller print. :)) Tanya in CT
It is very easy to make the type larger and smaller on almost all pages. just hold down the Ctl key while hitting the + or - key. do not hold down the shift key.
I do it all the time and then throw away the IE page and start over.
You can blow it up real big. Just hit the + key several times slowly.
I found this out by accident.
Post a Comment